Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Matt, May 6, 2007.

  1. Matt

    Matt Guest

    I need to replace my Dimension 4500 motherboard. Dimension 4500's were
    sold with either 400 MHz and 533 MHz FSBs. The system ran with 533 MHz
    FSB until a lightning strike. The CPU is okay and is for 533 FSB.

    Does the motherboard have to be matched to 533 FSB?

    Or is the FSB determined completely by the CPU?
     
    Matt, May 6, 2007
    #1
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  2. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Matt [mailto:]
    Posted At: Sunday, May 06, 2007 5:33 PM
    Posted To: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
    Conversation: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?
    Subject: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

    I need to replace my Dimension 4500 motherboard. Dimension 4500's were
    sold with either 400 MHz and 533 MHz FSBs. The system ran with 533 MHz
    FSB until a lightning strike. The CPU is okay and is for 533 FSB.

    Does the motherboard have to be matched to 533 FSB?

    Or is the FSB determined completely by the CPU?

    ----------------


    Sounds like an opportunity to replace the entire machine. If the
    lightening strike burned out the motherboard, who's to say the CPU,
    memory, hard disk, etc. aren't fried too. Computers are cheap.
     
    Tom Scales, May 6, 2007
    #2
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  3. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Okay, this is your big chance. Please send the replacement machine to:

    Matt Nomobo
    1919 Wino Way
    Walla Walla, WA

    I expect you'll be happiest sending a top-of-the-line model, but a
    run-of-the-mill Dell would be fine with me.
    Not you, I expect.
    And may you be laid to rest in a landfill.
     
    Matt, May 6, 2007
    #3
  4. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Matt [mailto:]
    Posted At: Sunday, May 06, 2007 6:44 PM
    Posted To: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
    Conversation: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?
    Subject: Re: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

    Okay, this is your big chance. Please send the replacement machine to:

    Matt Nomobo
    1919 Wino Way
    Walla Walla, WA

    I expect you'll be happiest sending a top-of-the-line model, but a
    run-of-the-mill Dell would be fine with me.
    Not you, I expect.
    And may you be laid to rest in a landfill.

    -------

    Sorry, just trying to help. I wouldn't invest in that machine. When you
    post to a newsgroup you'll get some opinions.

    I'm more than happy to stop answering any questions you have.

    Tom
     
    Tom Scales, May 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Matt

    Matt Guest

    You already did that. :)
     
    Matt, May 7, 2007
    #5
  6. Matt

    S.Lewis Guest

    <snip>

    Matthew,

    If the Dell documents are to be trusted, then the 4500 board FSB will be
    determined by the CPU external clock (in this case 533mhz).

    You could probably use a board from either the 4500 or 4550 models w/o
    issue.

    Dimension 4500 system board specs:
    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4500/specs.htm#1101572

    Dimension 4550 system board specs:
    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4550/specs.htm#1101572

    Worst case scenario, a complete working tower could likely be found on ebay
    in the $200 (+/-) range.

    Good luck.

    Stew
     
    S.Lewis, May 7, 2007
    #6
  7. Matt

    Matt Guest

    Thank you, Stew, especially for the links. :)
     
    Matt, May 7, 2007
    #7
  8. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Matt [mailto:]
    Posted At: Sunday, May 06, 2007 7:57 PM
    Posted To: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
    Conversation: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?
    Subject: Re: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

    You already did that. :)


    The system uses the 845E chipset. From the basic research I've done at
    Dell and Intel, there is no reference to a difference between support
    for 400 or 533 processors, which leads me to believe it is similar to
    the 850E in that the motherboard will automatically detect and switch.
    No guarantees, but that is my perception. The 850E, for example,
    autoswitched, but the 850 only supported 400.

    I'll let others like Ben jump in, but I believe you could also install a
    4550 motherboard. The primary difference is that the 4550 supports USB2
    on all USB ports and the 4500 supports USB1.1.

    In looking at ebay, both the 4500 and 4550 motherboards are in the $100
    range, not counting shipping. Many of the auctions for the 4550
    motherboard specifically state they will also work in the 4500, so
    that's the route I would suggest. I still have two 4550 computers that
    have been running 24/7 for many years.

    I still think the $100 would be better spent at the outlet towards a new
    machine. For example, a nicely equipped Dimension E520, Pentium-D 2.8
    (Dual Core), 1GB memory, Vista Home Premium, 250GB hard drive, DVD/RW
    drive is $429. Clearly a difference in price, but worth the money. A
    4550 motherboard will get you a machine near end of life. The E520
    would be a machine for several more years. If you're patient, you can
    get free shipping every few weeks and often they have sales.

    The E520 is vastly superior to a 4500/4550.

    Your choice and if money is tight, the $100 or so could get you a fine
    working machine, if the CPU and memory are not also fried.

    Tom
     
    Tom Scales, May 7, 2007
    #8
  9. Matt

    Ben Myers Guest

    A Dimension 4550 motherboard will fit in the chassis from a Dimemsion 4500 with
    absolutely no problem. Same size, same connectors and mounting plate,
    compatible chipsets, etc. But the Dimension 4600 motherboard is different, so
    beware of it. An Optiplex GX260 or a Precision 360 motherboard also would go
    very nicely... Ben Myers

     
    Ben Myers, May 7, 2007
    #9
  10. No, the chipset has to support 533MHz also.
     
    Barry Watzman, May 7, 2007
    #10
  11. The 850e didn't "autoswitch", it just "went with the flow", being able
    to support both 400 and 533 (while the earlier 850 only supported 400).
    The CPU has pins that specify the clock speed (they can be overridden
    if overclocking is supported), basically you had a 100MHz physical clock
    for 400MHz, and a 133MHz external physical clock for 533MHz. That
    choice was made (unless overridden) by the CPU; but the chipset has to
    be capable of "accepting" that choice, e.g. it has to be compatible with
    the input that it then gets.


     
    Barry Watzman, May 7, 2007
    #11
  12. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    I'd forgotten about the GX260 (duh). The advantage of this motherboard
    is that it has integrated gigabit. Did the GX260 have multiple form
    factors? If so, you need to make sure to get the minitower (Correct?)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ben Myers [mailto:]
    Posted At: Sunday, May 06, 2007 9:50 PM
    Posted To: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
    Conversation: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?
    Subject: Re: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

    A Dimension 4550 motherboard will fit in the chassis from a Dimemsion
    4500 with
    absolutely no problem. Same size, same connectors and mounting plate,
    compatible chipsets, etc. But the Dimension 4600 motherboard is
    different, so
    beware of it. An Optiplex GX260 or a Precision 360 motherboard also
    would go
    very nicely... Ben Myers

     
    Tom Scales, May 7, 2007
    #12
  13. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    Other than semantics, what's the difference between autoswitch (i.e.
    detect the processor through some means) and 'go with the flow'?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Barry Watzman [mailto:]
    Posted At: Sunday, May 06, 2007 9:59 PM
    Posted To: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
    Conversation: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?
    Subject: Re: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

    The 850e didn't "autoswitch", it just "went with the flow", being able
    to support both 400 and 533 (while the earlier 850 only supported 400).
    The CPU has pins that specify the clock speed (they can be overridden
    if overclocking is supported), basically you had a 100MHz physical clock

    for 400MHz, and a 133MHz external physical clock for 533MHz. That
    choice was made (unless overridden) by the CPU; but the chipset has to
    be capable of "accepting" that choice, e.g. it has to be compatible with

    the input that it then gets.


     
    Tom Scales, May 7, 2007
    #13
  14. Matt

    Ben Myers Guest

    Right. The Optiplex GX260 mini-tower board. The SFF version is the same
    board, but the mini-tower has a two-slot extender board... Ben Myers

     
    Ben Myers, May 7, 2007
    #14
  15. Autoswitch implies that something (a multiplier or whatever) changes,
    rather than that it just works at the higher frequencies. There is not
    practical difference, I guess, but internally they are not the same thing.

    [Consider a power supply that works on both 110 and 220 volts with no
    manual switching. These are sometimes called "autoswitching", but while
    some actually do switch (a circuit detects the voltage and reconfigures
    the power supply), others are not really "autoswitching" but simply have
    a wide range of operation, with the circuit operating in exactly the
    same manner and configuration.]


     
    Barry Watzman, May 8, 2007
    #15
  16. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    Gotcha. That's not the same way I look at it (detecting a different pin
    and acting accordingly seems like autoswitch to me).

    Doesn't really matter though :)

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Barry Watzman [mailto:]
    Posted At: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 7:39 AM
    Posted To: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell
    Conversation: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?
    Subject: Re: Pentium 4 -- 400 or 533 FSB --- what determines it?

    Autoswitch implies that something (a multiplier or whatever) changes,
    rather than that it just works at the higher frequencies. There is not
    practical difference, I guess, but internally they are not the same
    thing.

    [Consider a power supply that works on both 110 and 220 volts with no
    manual switching. These are sometimes called "autoswitching", but while

    some actually do switch (a circuit detects the voltage and reconfigures
    the power supply), others are not really "autoswitching" but simply have

    a wide range of operation, with the circuit operating in exactly the
    same manner and configuration.]


     
    Tom Scales, May 8, 2007
    #16
  17. Matt

    Matt Guest

    I understand that 1GB is marginal for Vista. Is the video hardware
    marginal too? I would feel like a chump if it didn't run at least as
    fast as my 4500 with XP.
     
    Matt, May 13, 2007
    #17
  18. Matt

    Tom Scales Guest

    I've found 1GB to run very well in a similar machine, as long as the
    video card doesn't share memory. 2GB is nice, but for 'normal' apps it
    doesn't make a big difference.

    Tom
     
    Tom Scales, May 13, 2007
    #18
  19. I concur with Tom; really, the minimum for Vista is 512MB, and 1GB is
    fine. In fact, my laptop has 1GB with shared video memory, and even
    that is fine unless you try to push it too hard. But for most people,
    1GB of memory for Vista is well above "marginal".
     
    Barry Watzman, May 13, 2007
    #19
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