Pop goes the [mountain lion] POP?

Discussion in 'Apple' started by John Albert, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. John Albert

    Bread Guest

    Looks to me like speculation based on a developer preview, not facts
    based on a shipping product.
    Getting their mail from a third party, which is what I recommend they
    do anyway.

    While the prevalance of GMail, yahooMail and others has grown
    enormously, there are still excellent honest-to-goodness mail provider
    specialists and such accounts range from free to really cheap. There's
    just pretty much no good reason to go with mail service from your
    connectivity provider, especially if that provider is Comcast.
     
    Bread, Mar 3, 2012
    #21
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  2. John Albert

    Guest Guest

    Looks to me that this is a first developer preview, and is not feature
    complete. Just because POP is missing from this release doesn't mean that
    it won't be in the final version.[/QUOTE]

    yea, keep thinking that.

    people said the same when classic was removed. it's just a developer
    release, that doesn't mean the final version will leave it out. guess
    what, it did.

    when rosetta was removed, they said the same thing. it's just a
    developer release, that doesn't mean anything about the final version.
    guess what, rosetta is gone too.

    it's a fairly safe bet that if apple removed pop, they're not about to
    put it back in something that is expected to ship in a couple of
    months.
     
    Guest, Mar 3, 2012
    #22
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  3. yea, keep thinking that.

    people said the same when classic was removed. it's just a developer
    release, that doesn't mean the final version will leave it out. guess
    what, it did.[/QUOTE]

    The difference being that Apple said from the outset of that version that
    Classic would not be supported in it. They said nothing about not
    including POP in Mountain Lion.

    The first developer build of Lion did not support my computer (late 2006
    iMac), but subsequent builds did.

    Yeah, so I'll keep believing that POP will be supported in later versions
    of Mountain Lion.
    Apple said from the outset that it would not be included in Lion.
    Late Summer is more than just a couple of months away.

    I'll take that bet, by the way. How much?
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 3, 2012
    #23
  4. John Albert

    JF Mezei Guest


    If something is missing from a developper preview it means that either
    Apple intends to remove that functionality, or that they made major
    changes to it and the code is not ready yet.

    If something doesn't change, it is merely recompiled for the new OS and
    would be one of the first things available under the new OS.
     
    JF Mezei, Mar 3, 2012
    #24
  5. John Albert

    JF Mezei Guest

    Perhaps Apple intends to use iCloud to fetch your POP emails from
    various mail servers on your behalf, and then you access them from any
    device via imap.

    This would make sense. But you would have to trust Apple with your POP
    usernames and passwords.
     
    JF Mezei, Mar 3, 2012
    #25
  6. John Albert

    JF Mezei Guest


    Interesting statement considering that Apple never discusses future
    product specs until they are publicly announced.

    Leaks may be a good indication of where Apple is going, but they are not
    authoritative.
     
    JF Mezei, Mar 3, 2012
    #26
  7. John Albert

    Guest Guest

    The difference being that Apple said from the outset of that version that
    Classic would not be supported in it. They said nothing about not
    including POP in Mountain Lion.[/QUOTE]

    not during the developer builds they didn't.
    not during the developer builds they didn't.

    here's another: lion was the first version of os x in the mac app store
    and people said it's just the developer release, it will be on dvd just
    like the rest because not everyone can download multiple gigs, plus
    there are still people using leopard that don't have access to the app
    store at all. it turns out it really was mac app store only and only
    after people bitched did apple back down and offer a usb stick.

    at least with mountain lion, they are saying only downloads.
     
    Guest, Mar 3, 2012
    #27
  8. John Albert

    Guest Guest

    what possible 'major change' could they do to pop mail, something
    that's been in apple mail (and nextmail before that, which is where
    apple mail started life) for over 20 years?
     
    Guest, Mar 3, 2012
    #28
  9. I'm pretty sure that if the domain in your email address also had an
    IMAP server, Mail would have found and used it first and stopped looking
    for a POP server.
     
    Neill Massello, Mar 3, 2012
    #29
  10. My WAG is that Apple may tell them to have Comcast's server forward the
    messages to Apple's iCloud server. Apple might also add an option to
    have iCloud fetch messages from all your POP servers. This will be
    advertised as a way to have all your messages from all your email
    services available on all your devices.

    "Are you tired of messing with all those old mops, sponges, and email
    services? Don't you wish you could combine them into one easy-to-use
    device? With iCloud, you can! Call now and we'll include this elegant
    Steve Jobs designer tote bag, a $49 value, absolutely free!"
     
    Neill Massello, Mar 3, 2012
    #30
  11. How so? When I set up a new account the first thing on the second window
    is a drop down asking what kind of acc to set up. The first is Pop the
    second is IMAP. This is before I tell them what service I will be using.
    I use three. I have some Pop accounts and some IMAP.
    I'm running Lion 10.7.3 and Mail 5.2.[/QUOTE]

    Read the subject line -- this is apparently a new change in Mountain
    Lion. So of course you don't see the problem in Lion.
     
    Barry Margolin, Mar 3, 2012
    #31
  12. But when they push out developer previews, they often DO tell the
    developers the specs of the new release. In the case of Classic and
    Rosetta, I think their demise was made clear to the developers.
     
    Barry Margolin, Mar 3, 2012
    #32
  13. Irrelevant, my point was that the change is post-Lion. Whether or not
    it's permanent, using Lion to test it is meaningless.
     
    Barry Margolin, Mar 3, 2012
    #33
  14. Yes, it's extremely unlikely that Apple would release a new version,
    "preview" or not, of an email client lacking POP if they had any
    intention of putting it back in the final shipping version. It's pretty
    plain that Apple now sees POP as something like a floppy drive. If you
    want to access a POP account in Mountain Lion, you'll need to use
    something other than Apple's Mail app.
     
    Neill Massello, Mar 3, 2012
    #34
  15. Interesting statement considering that Apple never discusses future
    product specs until they are publicly announced.[/QUOTE]

    They publicly announced Lion out the outset of announcing Lion.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 4, 2012
    #35
  16. John Albert

    John Albert Guest

    "It's a fairly safe bet that if apple removed pop, they're
    not about to put it back in something that is expected to
    ship in a couple of months."

    I'm the original poster in this thread.

    I've continued to experiment with Mail in Mountain Lion. I
    think I could be wrong about there not being _any_ option
    for a POP server with ML Mail, I thought I _almost_ had it.
    At one point, I saw a box that offered a "POP option". But
    then it vanished and I was not able to find it again. But
    that was only AFTER I had first created an IMAP account with
    my mail provider.

    Starting "completely fresh" -- as would a new user or many
    older users starting out on a new machine -- I can find no
    way to create a POP account initially. (By "completely
    fresh", I went into the prefs and deleted the "accounts"
    pref file, after which Mail when launched behaved as if it
    were being run for the first time). When you first enter the
    basic information (user ID, current email address), it runs
    with that, and the next screen Mail presents says it will
    create an IMAP account, with NO option for POP accessible.
    You can either proceed from that point with IMAP, or "back
    out" and start over, but again, when you start over you will
    progress only to the point where Mail offers to create an
    IMAP account.

    Again, I could be wrong, but if there is some option to
    choose POP, it is all-but impossible to discover. I've been
    a Mac user almost exclusively since 1987, so I'm not a
    newcomer to the platform or the OS. But it's obvious that
    with Mountain Lion, Apple does not want you to set up your
    Mac with a POP account as your -only- account, and makes it
    difficult to do so (if that is even possible).

    As others have mentioned, the "cloud" doesn't play well with
    POP, and its also obvious that Apple is "pushing us towards
    the cloud".

    I prefer POP to IMAP, the latter which I find confusing and
    bewildering insofar as "managing my mail" is concerned. I've
    never had problems when traveling with my laptop -- I have
    the laptop set so that it DOESN'T delete mail from the
    server when I access it, so I can re-download it on my
    "main" Mac. Once I get mail on my main Mac, it is "off the
    server" and I never see it there again (which is what I want).

    I suppose I'll get used to IMAP if I have to, but would
    prefer to have the choice that works best for me.
    Apparently, the powers-that-be at Apple believe we should no
    longer have such choices....

    - John
     
    John Albert, Mar 4, 2012
    #36
  17. John Albert

    John Albert Guest

    That's completely in line with my experimentations with
    Mail.app in Mountain Lion.

    Apparently my ISP does have an IMAP server for my email
    address, but I had never attempted to use if before.

    When I first tried to set up Mail.app, it found that server,
    "set me up" for it, and gave no option (or at least no
    option that was readily visible or accessible) to select my
    existing POP server instead.

    It was IMAP or nothing, as far as I can discover.

    The "pathway to POP" may indeed be there. But I can't find it...
     
    John Albert, Mar 4, 2012
    #37
  18. What happens if you specify a comcast.net address, or an address in a
    domain that it doesn't recognize at all, when creating the account?

    My guess is that when you give it an address, it tries logging into an
    IMAP service. If that works, it doesn't bother giving you the option of
    type of server. But if there's no IMAP server, or it can't find any
    server at all, you get the old menu that lets you specify all the
    details.
     
    Barry Margolin, Mar 4, 2012
    #38
  19. Maybe you can edit ~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist and change
    the account type from IMAPAccount to POPAccount.
     
    Barry Margolin, Mar 4, 2012
    #39
  20. John Albert

    John Albert Guest

    That may be possible, I'll have to work on it.

    But it's obvious that "solutions" like this are not meant
    for the beginning (or even modestly "experienced") user.

    Apple DOES NOT want you to use POP with Mountain Lion, and
    are doing everything possible to discourage such use.

    What about those of use who think different?

    - John
     
    John Albert, Mar 4, 2012
    #40
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