Pop goes the [mountain lion] POP?

Discussion in 'Apple' started by John Albert, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. John Albert

    Guest Guest

    yes, quite a few. microsoft entourage is one, which would frequently
    have its database corrupted causing all mail to be lost.
     
    Guest, Mar 6, 2012
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  2. John Albert

    Invid Fan Guest

    A quick check showed Localnet doesn't offer IMAP (or if they do,
    there's no setup information for it that I could find)
     
    Invid Fan, Mar 6, 2012
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  3. John Albert

    George Kerby Guest

    Yep. About twice a month I back my database to a thumb drive. Think I'll do
    that right after I sign out here.
     
    George Kerby, Mar 6, 2012
  4. John Albert

    Alan Browne Guest

    Would you accept "it's a concern for those who prefer POP."?
     
    Alan Browne, Mar 6, 2012
  5. Would you accept "it's a concern for those who prefer POP."?[/QUOTE]

    It's an erroneous report in the first place.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 6, 2012
  6. John Albert

    JF Mezei Guest


    So, as one who relies on POP, you are not one bit concerned about this
    rumour ?
     
    JF Mezei, Mar 6, 2012
  7. So, as one who relies on POP, you are not one bit concerned about this
    rumour ?[/QUOTE]

    I am not concerned about the rumor because I've read the facts, and know
    the rumor to be groundless.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 7, 2012
  8. The only rumour is that POP is not in a developer release of ML. I've
    heard no rumors about whether it wil be in the real release of ML.
     
    Doug Anderson, Mar 7, 2012
  9. John Albert

    Alan Browne Guest

    Really? Seems the consensus is that it is (to date) missing in ML. Has
    other news popped (or IMAPed) up?
     
    Alan Browne, Mar 7, 2012
  10. John Albert

    Guest Guest

    someone on macintouch claims it's there.
     
    Guest, Mar 7, 2012
  11. By "consensus" do you mean one secondhand report on this newsgroup
    that pop is missing from a developer release?

    That's all I've seen, but maybe there is other information that people
    have.
     
    Doug Anderson, Mar 7, 2012
  12. Really? Seems the consensus is that it is (to date) missing in ML. Has
    other news popped (or IMAPed) up?[/QUOTE]

    I posted this early yesterday; here it is again:

    I found this in the macintouch forums discussions:

    "I read on another Mac forum that Apple Mail for Mountain Lion no
    longer provides support for the POP (Post Office Protocol) only IMAP
    (Internet Message Access Protocol)..."

    POP works fine in Mountain Lion DP1, either for a newly created
    account or from a carryover through OS upgrade. However, POP has been
    discontinued for mac.com and me.com accounts which must be changed to
    IMAP'

    And this:

    Mail apparently tries to figure out whether to use IMAP or POP by
    itself automagically. If it doesn't discover an IMAP server, it will
    try POP. If it doesn't discover either, it will bring up a screen
    with options. The simple way to force the issue is not to enter a
    password (since most mail servers require passwords now.... I would
    deeply question the continued use of one that doesn't). Once it fails
    to establish any account, then it will ask the user for all of the
    details.

    -- Michelle
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 7, 2012
  13. The people who reported this behavior said they did it with Mountain Lion,
    so if they're to be believed (and I see no reason not to believe them), it
    is the way in Mountain Lion.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 7, 2012
  14. John Albert

    JF Mezei Guest

    The same arguments that say that the rumour is groundless because this
    is pre-release stuff also make your "facts" groundless.

    Consider that Apple could make POP harder/obscure to configure in ML and
    widthdraw it in the following release.


    Apple has iCloud, iMessage and it lacks iMail. And Apple will want its
    iMail because it needs a "me too" to compete against Google's Gmail.
     
    JF Mezei, Mar 7, 2012
  15. The same arguments that say that the rumour is groundless because this
    is pre-release stuff also make your "facts" groundless.[/QUOTE]

    The rumor is that it is not in the beta; the fact is that it is in the beta.

    You are confusing conclusions based on the rumor with the rumor itself.
    That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 7, 2012
  16. John Albert

    Paul Sture Guest

    I think I did the same going from Tiger on an old system to Leopard on a
    new system. No problems there.
    Yes. Before I got access to an IMAP setup I wanted to transfer a load of
    mail from a VMS system to my Mac, and VMS stores its email in a mix of
    indexed and sequential files. I settled for a straight text export, one
    text file per mail folder, which Spotlight picks up nicely.
     
    Paul Sture, Mar 7, 2012
  17. John Albert

    Paul Sture Guest

    Does Entourage have any export options?
     
    Paul Sture, Mar 7, 2012
  18. John Albert

    Bread Guest

    Of course it has iMail. It's just never called it that. It was .mac,
    then it was mobileme mail and now it's called iCloud mail.

    And like GMail, it's a non-standard IMAP now. Not that that's anything
    to be proud of, I don't think.
     
    Bread, Mar 7, 2012
  19. John Albert

    John Albert Guest

    In complete agreement.

    But Apple seems as if they want to "fix" things, by making
    it difficult and pointedly "unintuitive" to create a POP
    account when Mail is opened for the first time.

    After a tip from this board, I went back and re-installed
    Mountain Lion from scratch.

    I launched Mail and started to work my way through the
    opening dialog, which prompts you for your full name, your
    email name, and your password.

    Once you enter all three parameters, Mail will by default
    create an IMAP account for you automatically. At this point
    (again, after entering all three parameters) there is no
    "option" for POP. NONE AT ALL. Your new account is created
    as IMAP and you never see (or realize) that creation of a
    POP account is or was possible.

    Once you create the initial IMAP account, it becomes
    impossible to create a POP account based on your existing
    email identity and password. You can attempt to do so (in
    the Accounts panel of Mail's Preferences pane), but Mail
    won't let you proceed, claiming that an account already
    exists for that username and password (it does, doesn't it?)
    You're stuck with IMAP -- unless you delete the original
    account and start all over.

    As I mentioned above, there is a "workaround" for creating
    an initial POP account, but unless one knows "the trick"
    beforehand, Mail won't do it.

    The trick is, at the initial dialog, enter a name and email
    identity, but leave the "password" field blank.

    However, when the user hits "continue" at this point, before
    Mail proceeds, it throws up a dialog to the effect that
    because the password field is empty, the user may not be
    able to connect. When I first saw this, I didn't comprehend
    that I could continue anyway, and reach the next dialog (at
    which a POP option becomes available). I sense that the
    majority of newer users would react as I did -- that is to
    say, to believe it was their fault for the alert, and then
    to go back to the original dialog and enter their email
    password. At that point (see above), Mail "dumps you" into
    IMAP, no choice.

    There is nothing indicated in the opening dialog that
    "proceeding past the warning" is the only pathway that leads
    to the option to create a POP account. There is nothing to
    indicate any reference to POP at all.

    The user is deliberately being "led" in a certain direction
    -- that direction being IMAP, whether the user wishes to go
    that way or not.

    I thought that having a Mac gave me the option to think
    different and do things MY way.

    Apparently not.

    - John
     
    John Albert, Mar 7, 2012
  20. John Albert

    John Albert Guest

    They may not be "dropping" it.

    But they are certainly discouraging its use.

    Mail.app is intentionally designed to hinder the
    establishment of a POP account through its opening dialog.
    See my reply to Michelle Steiner posted earlier today....
     
    John Albert, Mar 7, 2012
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