POP v IMAP (Google Mail)

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Alan Browne, May 6, 2014.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    As I mentioned, I said I'd try IMAP again to see if the alleged
    improvements in Apple Mail and Gmail IMAP were true. Or at least
    useful. So into the breach - I've been using it since Sunday evening.

    While IMAP works fine, it creates a distraction in that items that are
    automatically trashed (spam, etc) on the Google Mail server are now
    visible in Apple mail as a growing badge count in Trash. A distraction
    and no clear way to eliminate that. When I trash spam (etc) on Google's
    server but otherwise use POP for access, then that trash is not visible
    in Apple Mail on my Mac. So I don't see it, I don't have to clear it.

    (Note that I have Apple mail set to not show a count of unopened mail
    that I trash automatically. That works fine for all the POP accounts,
    but for IMAP it seems immune - if that alone were fixed on the Apple
    Mail side, all would be fine).

    Also some strange behaviour wrt to archived mails on Gmail occasionally
    popping into view in the archive folder in Gmail.

    So, as I (and a few others) keep saying, there are situations where IMAP
    is not appropriate (or Golidlocksian "just right") for home users and
    this is one of them.

    Back to POP (which requires mild subterfuge in Apple Mail for Google
    accounts).

    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, May 6, 2014
    #1
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  2. Alan Browne

    JF Mezei Guest

    On 14-05-06 17:32, Alan Browne wrote:

    > While IMAP works fine, it creates a distraction in that items that are
    > automatically trashed (spam, etc) on the Google Mail server are now
    > visible in Apple mail as a growing badge count in Trash.


    You can try Thunderbird as email client. It has far fewer bells and
    whistles and less likely to have you participate in phishing scams.

    There may also be preferences in Apple Mail that disable the badging of
    folders on remote mailboxes.

    You need to remember that IMAP gives your email cleint a view on your
    complete remote mailbox. You can create folders on the remote mailbox,
    move mail to/from it and organise all your mail on the remote mailbox.
    That organisation is automaticxally reflected on all your devices.

    For instance, prior to leaving ona trip, I create a folder with all
    relevant emails (reservations, boarding passes etc) on my desktop. And
    that folder automatically becomes available on my iPhone and Laptop
    which I bring with me on the trip (or just iPhone).

    Other advantage is that if you read an email on any device, it is marked
    as read when you access your mailbox from any other device.
     
    JF Mezei, May 7, 2014
    #2
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  3. Alan Browne

    Lewis Guest

    In message <>
    Alan Browne <> wrote:
    > As I mentioned, I said I'd try IMAP again to see if the alleged
    > improvements in Apple Mail and Gmail IMAP


    Again, Gmail is not IMAP. It is sort of like IMAP. It can work with an
    IMAP client, mostly.

    It is *not* IMAP. Judging IMAP based on Gmail (and especially on gmail
    with a specific client) is a bit like judging rugby based on seeing a
    FIFA World Cup qualifier or an NFL game.

    --
    'Who's that playing now, Mr. Dibbler?' "'And you".' 'Sorry, Mr.
    Dibbler?' 'Only they write it &U,' said Dibbler. --Soul Music
     
    Lewis, May 7, 2014
    #3
  4. Alan Browne

    Howard Guest

    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    > As I mentioned, I said I'd try IMAP again to see if the alleged
    > improvements in Apple Mail and Gmail IMAP were true. Or at least
    > useful. So into the breach - I've been using it since Sunday evening.
    >
    > While IMAP works fine, it creates a distraction in that items that are
    > automatically trashed (spam, etc) on the Google Mail server are now
    > visible in Apple mail as a growing badge count in Trash. A distraction
    > and no clear way to eliminate that. When I trash spam (etc) on Google's
    > server but otherwise use POP for access, then that trash is not visible
    > in Apple Mail on my Mac. So I don't see it, I don't have to clear it.
    >
    > (Note that I have Apple mail set to not show a count of unopened mail
    > that I trash automatically. That works fine for all the POP accounts,
    > but for IMAP it seems immune - if that alone were fixed on the Apple
    > Mail side, all would be fine).
    >
    > Also some strange behaviour wrt to archived mails on Gmail occasionally
    > popping into view in the archive folder in Gmail.
    >
    > So, as I (and a few others) keep saying, there are situations where IMAP
    > is not appropriate (or Golidlocksian "just right") for home users and
    > this is one of them.
    >
    > Back to POP (which requires mild subterfuge in Apple Mail for Google
    > accounts).


    I have been using Mail and Gmail together in IMAP form for several years
    and experience NONE of these issues. I suspect your setup is not fully
    correct.


    --
    Howard
     
    Howard, May 7, 2014
    #4
  5. Alan Browne

    Guest

    Jolly Roger <> writes:

    > If such trivial things caused me to jump ship, I doubt there's
    > an email client in existence that would satisfy me.


    Well, there is...

    > Luckily, little things like badge counts on the trash are
    > hardly enough to prevent me from using my email client.


    ....MailMate gives you complete control of them.

    http://manual.mailmate-app.com/preferences#counters_notifications

    Example screen shots -

    http://MIX.COM/MailMateCounters.png

    Billy Y..
    --
    sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
    add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
    bcc 20$ ; not a number
     
    , May 7, 2014
    #5
  6. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.05.06, 21:58 , Jolly Roger wrote:
    > On 2014-05-06, Alan Browne <> wrote:
    >> As I mentioned, I said I'd try IMAP again to see if the alleged
    >> improvements in Apple Mail and Gmail IMAP were true. Or at least
    >> useful. So into the breach - I've been using it since Sunday evening.
    >>
    >> While IMAP works fine, it creates a distraction in that items that are
    >> automatically trashed (spam, etc) on the Google Mail server are now
    >> visible in Apple mail as a growing badge count in Trash. A distraction
    >> and no clear way to eliminate that. When I trash spam (etc) on Google's
    >> server but otherwise use POP for access, then that trash is not visible
    >> in Apple Mail on my Mac. So I don't see it, I don't have to clear it.
    >>
    >> (Note that I have Apple mail set to not show a count of unopened mail
    >> that I trash automatically. That works fine for all the POP accounts,
    >> but for IMAP it seems immune - if that alone were fixed on the Apple
    >> Mail side, all would be fine).
    >>
    >> Also some strange behaviour wrt to archived mails on Gmail occasionally
    >> popping into view in the archive folder in Gmail.
    >>
    >> So, as I (and a few others) keep saying, there are situations where IMAP
    >> is not appropriate (or Golidlocksian "just right") for home users and
    >> this is one of them.
    >>
    >> Back to POP (which requires mild subterfuge in Apple Mail for Google
    >> accounts).

    >
    > If such trivial things caused me to jump ship, I doubt there's an email
    > client in existence that would satisfy me. Luckily, little things like
    > badge counts on the trash are hardly enough to prevent me from using my
    > email client.


    I occasionally glance at my mail (on my side screen) to see if anything
    has come in. No badges - nothing to do. The mere presence of the badge
    is enough to cause me pause (and I have, at some point, to clear them).
    Distraction and yet another bit of housekeeping to do.

    But Howard nudged me to look at a filter condition on GMail that I
    hadn't considered and indeed it can set the trashed e-mail as "unread"
    ... so I'll try IMAP again when I have some time later this week.

    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, May 7, 2014
    #6
  7. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.05.07, 00:57 , JF Mezei wrote:
    > On 14-05-06 17:32, Alan Browne wrote:
    >
    >> While IMAP works fine, it creates a distraction in that items that are
    >> automatically trashed (spam, etc) on the Google Mail server are now
    >> visible in Apple mail as a growing badge count in Trash.

    >
    > You can try Thunderbird as email client. It has far fewer bells and
    > whistles and less likely to have you participate in phishing scams.


    I used to use it on Windows and was very satisfied with it for mail.

    When I first got a Mac I used Apple Mail but wasn't very happy with it
    so I began using Thunderbird (since I use it for usenet anyway...).

    But I deal with a lot of attachments for various apps, esp. MS Office,
    pdf and images. Thunderbird's marriage to OS X in that respect was
    pretty poor.

    Eventually I went back to Apple Mail and I've stuck with it. Not but
    the best integration with OS X for what I do.

    >
    > There may also be preferences in Apple Mail that disable the badging of
    > folders on remote mailboxes.


    If there are, I can't find them. I looked. It does work for local
    (POP'd) messages. After reading Howard's message it occurred to me that
    I hadn't gone deep enough on the Gmail side. See my reply to him.

    >
    > You need to remember that IMAP gives your email cleint a view on your
    > complete remote mailbox. You can create folders on the remote mailbox,
    > move mail to/from it and organise all your mail on the remote mailbox.
    > That organisation is automaticxally reflected on all your devices.


    No shit.

    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, May 7, 2014
    #7
  8. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.05.07, 10:37 , Howard wrote:
    > Alan Browne <> wrote:
    >
    >> As I mentioned, I said I'd try IMAP again to see if the alleged
    >> improvements in Apple Mail and Gmail IMAP were true. Or at least
    >> useful. So into the breach - I've been using it since Sunday evening.
    >>
    >> While IMAP works fine, it creates a distraction in that items that are
    >> automatically trashed (spam, etc) on the Google Mail server are now
    >> visible in Apple mail as a growing badge count in Trash. A distraction
    >> and no clear way to eliminate that. When I trash spam (etc) on Google's
    >> server but otherwise use POP for access, then that trash is not visible
    >> in Apple Mail on my Mac. So I don't see it, I don't have to clear it.
    >>
    >> (Note that I have Apple mail set to not show a count of unopened mail
    >> that I trash automatically. That works fine for all the POP accounts,
    >> but for IMAP it seems immune - if that alone were fixed on the Apple
    >> Mail side, all would be fine).
    >>
    >> Also some strange behaviour wrt to archived mails on Gmail occasionally
    >> popping into view in the archive folder in Gmail.
    >>
    >> So, as I (and a few others) keep saying, there are situations where IMAP
    >> is not appropriate (or Golidlocksian "just right") for home users and
    >> this is one of them.
    >>
    >> Back to POP (which requires mild subterfuge in Apple Mail for Google
    >> accounts).

    >
    > I have been using Mail and Gmail together in IMAP form for several years
    > and experience NONE of these issues. I suspect your setup is not fully
    > correct.


    Thanks Howard, it seems you're right! I was looking for the solution on
    the Apple Mail side when it is on the Gmail side.

    I just looked at Gmail settings and I see that in my filters I was not
    marking filtered and trashed SPAM as "read".

    So I'll give it another try when I get 'roundtuit.

    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, May 7, 2014
    #8
  9. Alan Browne

    Howard Guest

    Alan Browne <> wrote:

    > Thanks Howard, it seems you're right! I was looking for the solution on
    > the Apple Mail side when it is on the Gmail side.
    >
    > I just looked at Gmail settings and I see that in my filters I was not
    > marking filtered and trashed SPAM as "read".
    >
    > So I'll give it another try when I get 'roundtuit.


    This is an oldy but a goody.

    I imagine some of it is out of date but I learned a lot from it.

    http://db.tidbits.com/article/10253



    --
    Howard
     
    Howard, May 7, 2014
    #9
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