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problem cloning new drive for HP laptop.

Discussion in 'Laptops' started by JohnF, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. JohnF

    JohnF Guest

    I got a new larger HD for my HP XE-2. Trying to use Ghost DOS to copy
    original Op sys to new drive. New Ghosted drive will not boot, NTLDR
    missing keeps comming up. I've tried everything I can find online to
    solve the problem but can't get anywhere so far. I even tried
    installing XP Pro on the new drive in the laptop then Ghosting it in a
    separate desktop using DOS but still get the same error. Did repairs
    with XP CD all 3 ways you can including installation repair. NADA.
    Copied NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM to root, no improvement.

    What else can I try besides reinstalling XP, all the upgrades and all
    my software over again?

    TIA

    JohnF
     
    JohnF, Oct 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. There is a "repair install" that will preserve your installed software
    and settings. Proceed as if it was a normal install and let the
    installation program "find" the already installed copy, and offer to
    "repair it". This doesn't always work, I've had it wipe out an
    installation, so be prepared for that.

    The utilities "Fixmbr" and "Fixboot" might also get you up and going
    without a reinstall.

    My experience with using imaging programs (Ghost, Drive Image, Acronis,
    etc.) has been inconsistent. Sometimes a Ghosted NT/2000/XP image will
    boot, other times it will not and requires anything from minor
    maintanence to a reinstallation. And I have not been able to pinpoint
    just what determines when it succeeds and when it fails.
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 12, 2005
    #2
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  3. Insert original XP disk, and start the recovery console. Type 'fixboot' and
    [return]. Your hard disk should now be bootable.
     
    The Electric Fan Club, Oct 12, 2005
    #3
  4. Did you image the entire drive or just {the,a} partition?
     
    William P. N. Smith, Oct 12, 2005
    #4
  5. JohnF

    JohnF Guest

    Great links, Unk. Some I've tried, some I haven't. Couple are
    interesting.


    JohnF
    cross posted to:
    24hoursupport.helpdesk,uk.comp.sys.laptops,comp.sys.laptops
     
    JohnF, Oct 12, 2005
    #5
  6. JohnF

    JohnF Guest

    Entire drive, once to a blank HD, once to an NTFS formatted HD, same
    results.

    JohnF
     
    JohnF, Oct 12, 2005
    #6
  7. JohnF

    mike Guest

    Don't know whether you have a floppy.
    Don't know anything about XP.
    But I do have some experience with hard drives on laptops.
    Problem seems to be that the laptop geometry is autodetected
    differently on laptop than on desktop.
    Had a problem with an IBM HD just this morning in a floppyless laptop.
    Wouldn't boot.
    Put the drive back into the desktop, turned off drive geometry
    autodetect and set it for LARGE. Fdisk/Format/System.
    Put it back into the laptop and it booted...back into the desktop
    and loaded the files. (Tried all combinations of BIOS geometry
    before I found that LARGE worked.)
    YMMV
    mike

    --
    Wanted, Serial cable for Dell Axim X5 PDA.
    Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
    with links. Delete this sig when replying.
    FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
    Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
    MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
    ht<removethis>tp://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
     
    mike, Oct 12, 2005
    #7
  8. JohnF

    ric Guest

    i've seen something similar. i use ghost a fair bit at work here
    without any issue, and a few months ago was at one of our swedish sites
    and we had to clone some HP desktops (i wouldn't read too much into the
    fact they were also hp's though). usually a 5 minute job, but the
    clones of the disks onto new drives all wouldn't boot with NTLDR
    errors. tried all versions of ghost, and it wouldn't bloody work. to
    save dismantling machines, we were imaging them in DOS on another PC
    with the lid off - which happened to be an IBM.
    we eventually found that if we imaged them in situ, i.e. imaged them on
    the type of PC that they were going to be used in, then it worked.
    this doesn't make a lot of sense, as a disk image should be a disk
    image, but we never got to the bottom of it. ghost does have an option
    in it to ignore IDE controllers, though, which might be worth trying.
    ric
     
    ric, Oct 13, 2005
    #8
  9. JohnF

    John Doue Guest

    mike wrote:

    snip

    Mike,

    What you are saying confirms my suspicions, especially regarding
    Thinkpads. I had several contacts with Acronis tech support regarding an
    image I made with True Image and they finally decided that my Bios
    recognized my drive in a manner not exactly consistent with the drive's
    specs. And since AFAIK, most laptops bios do not allow any fiddling with
    HD parameters ... This would explain too that Partition Magic has
    problems with a secondary drive in a Thinkpad: it sees it as defective
    with its partitions if the drive has been cloned on the Thinkpad. This
    does not happen if the cloning is done on a different machine, but then
    the drive does not boot if put back in the Thinkpad.

    A nightmare.
     
    John Doue, Oct 13, 2005
    #9
  10. JohnF

    cmdrdata Guest

    Just to put my two-cents, based on experience: I was doing similar
    thing on a Thinkpad 600e, using the target mounted in a USB drive.
    XXCLONE and True Image copied disk will not boot. However, I later
    re-imaged the disk (using True Image), with the second drive mounted in
    an UltraBay adaptor, and the disk will boot (also the imaging takes
    less than an hour whereas the USB method tokk several hours). Along the
    way I went from FAT32 to NTFS.
     
    cmdrdata, Oct 13, 2005
    #10
  11. JohnF

    JohnF Guest

    What I'm trying now, again, is doing an XP install on the new drive
    installed in the laptop, removing the drive and then copying the old
    drive image to the new HD on a desktop. I copied the boot.ini, NTLDR,
    and NTDETECT from the new install in the laptop to a floppy hoping to
    be able to copy them back to the new HD when reinstalled. Is there any
    way to prevent Ghost from reformatting the drive and to just copy the
    image from old HD to the extsting partition on new one? I'm going in
    circles right now. I have Acronis True Image 8.0, Ghost 2003 and 9.?
    and Partition Magic 8.? available to work with.

    getting dizzy

    JohnF

    Great info everybody, glad to know this c*^p happens to other people,
    thanks
     
    JohnF, Oct 13, 2005
    #11
  12. It sounds, from other's notes here, that what you want to do is make a
    Ghost image from the laptop onto an external hard drive, put the new
    drive in the laptop, and restore the image. This requires an external
    drive or CD/DVD burner (or network-enabled or enterprise edition of
    Ghost).
    Yes, instead of restoring the drive, just restore a single (the only)
    partition from the image.
     
    William P. N. Smith, Oct 13, 2005
    #12
  13. JohnF

    dg1261 Guest

    John has touched on the root of the problem, guys. This has long been an
    issue with IBM laptops and, I've recently discovered this also seems to be a
    problem with HP/Compaq laptops (I don't work on too many of those). The
    problem is that the bios in these particular laptops autodetects the HDD
    geometry differently than most other machines. Most machines will
    autodetect the geometry with 255 heads, but the IBM autodetects 240 heads
    (and adjusts the cylinder count accordingly to maintain the correct disk
    size). Note I'm not talking about using two HDDs with different parameters,
    I'm saying the exact same HDD will autodetect differently in different
    laptops.

    So when you remove the HDD and put it in a desktop to do the cloning, the
    clone is configured with a geometry as detected by the desktop. When you
    move the HDD back to the laptop, it autodetects a different geometry and
    things are out of whack.
     
    dg1261, Oct 14, 2005
    #13
  14. JohnF

    rothers Guest

    Same problem here with a HP ZD8181 - put old drive in desktop, did a "backup
    image" with Drive Image 7, put new drive in desktop, restored image to new
    drive, new drive in laptop - won't boot.

    What I now do which works great using Drive Image 7 is to:

    1. Take a backup image (I stored mine onto desktop over network)

    2. Put new drive in Laptop

    3. Do a default install of Windows, let it partition & format the disk and
    create boot sectors.

    4. Boot Laptop from Drive Image CD, open up Image Browser, delete all existing
    Windows files on new hard drive, browse to the backup image, choose all files
    and restore.

    Laptop now boots fine, this get's round any Laptop BIOS oddities with regard to
    drive geometry.

    Cheers

    Neil
     
    rothers, Oct 15, 2005
    #14
  15. JohnF

    John Doue Guest

    Thanks very much for this very interesting information. It is a shame to
    have to resort to such approaches. AFAIK, those problems are unheard of
    with desktops and it seems to me, manufacturers are pressuring bios
    editors to oversimply the geometry choices. Another question: would not
    it be possible for Editors like Acronis and Powerquest to take this
    problem into account? I must say, I do not know whether it is reasonably
    possible but I resent being obliged to resort to such complications just
    to restore an image.
     
    John Doue, Oct 15, 2005
    #15
  16. JohnF

    me/2 Guest

    :>rothers wrote:
    :>>
    :>>
    :>>>What I'm trying now, again, is doing an XP install on the new drive
    :>>>installed in the laptop, removing the drive and then copying the old
    :>>>drive image to the new HD on a desktop. I copied the boot.ini, NTLDR,
    :>>>and NTDETECT from the new install in the laptop to a floppy hoping to
    :>>>be able to copy them back to the new HD when reinstalled. Is there any
    :>>>way to prevent Ghost from reformatting the drive and to just copy the
    :>>>image from old HD to the extsting partition on new one? I'm going in
    :>>>circles right now. I have Acronis True Image 8.0, Ghost 2003 and 9.?
    :>>>and Partition Magic 8.? available to work with.
    :>>
    :>>
    :>> Same problem here with a HP ZD8181 - put old drive in desktop, did a "backup
    :>> image" with Drive Image 7, put new drive in desktop, restored image to new
    :>> drive, new drive in laptop - won't boot.
    :>>
    :>> What I now do which works great using Drive Image 7 is to:
    :>>
    :>> 1. Take a backup image (I stored mine onto desktop over network)
    :>>
    :>> 2. Put new drive in Laptop
    :>>
    :>> 3. Do a default install of Windows, let it partition & format the disk and
    :>> create boot sectors.
    :>>
    :>> 4. Boot Laptop from Drive Image CD, open up Image Browser, delete all existing
    :>> Windows files on new hard drive, browse to the backup image, choose all files
    :>> and restore.
    :>>
    :>> Laptop now boots fine, this get's round any Laptop BIOS oddities with regard to
    :>> drive geometry.
    :>>
    :>> Cheers
    :>>
    :>> Neil
    :>>
    :>Thanks very much for this very interesting information. It is a shame to
    :>have to resort to such approaches. AFAIK, those problems are unheard of
    :>with desktops and it seems to me, manufacturers are pressuring bios
    :>editors to oversimply the geometry choices. Another question: would not
    :>it be possible for Editors like Acronis and Powerquest to take this
    :>problem into account? I must say, I do not know whether it is reasonably
    :>possible but I resent being obliged to resort to such complications just
    :>to restore an image.

    Another option to consider that I've been doing for years. Using the
    backup tool of your choice make PARTITION copies (even if you only
    have one partition) instead of FULL DISK copies. Then if you need to
    restore the backup to a new hard drive you install it in the computer
    where it will be used and use your partitioning tool of choice to
    create the partition(s). BTW, formatting the partition(s) is NOT
    necessary. Then using your backup tool do a restore of the partition
    image(s) over the partition(s) on the new hard drive. Also, if you
    have multiple partitions this will allow you to resize them in advance
    if you want.

    From personal experience I can say this approach definitely works with
    Ghost and TrueImage.

    me/2
     
    me/2, Oct 15, 2005
    #16
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