SATA RAID - Using Serillel on IDE Drives vs. Native SATA Drives.

Wayne Youngman · Jul 13, 2003

Hi,

I'm just working out a new system and I'm keen to use a SATA Raid 0 set-up. My question is do you think it will be ok to use (cheaper) IDE disk-drives with Serillel adapters, or is it wiser to buy *native* SATA disk-drives?

The reason I ask this is that regular IDE disk-drives are a fair few quid cheaper than their native counterparts, so I could shave some ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ï¿½ of my build costs.

Of course I will need to obtain an extra Serillel adapter (and maybe a SATA power connector) as I think u only get one (NF7-s), but if you guys know of any other *perks* to going native SATA then I may have to reconsider

Wayne ][

TomG · Jul 13, 2003

it may not be as fast but it will work with the PATA drives on Serillel-2 adapters... the Raptor drives seem to be real fast since they are 10K rpm drives if you do happen to decide to go after SATA drives.

Wayne Youngman · Jul 14, 2003

TomG wrote:

it may not be as fast but it will work with the PATA drives on Serillel-2 adapters... the Raptor drives seem to be real fast since they are 10K rpm drives if you do happen to decide to go after SATA drives.

Hi Tom,

thanks for reply, hmmm firstly I'm not sure if the NF7-S comes with Serillel-2, it says just plain Serillel, not sure what the difference is?. Yes I was looking at the Raptor drives but the capacity is rather small (36.7GB) and the price is not as keen here in the U.K (ï¿½113.39). If I was making more money from my audio/visual skills I may be tempted to shell-out ï¿½226.78 for 73.4Gbs of blistering 10,000RPM SATA disk in Raid-0, but it looks like better value opting for:

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 120GB 8MB Cache ATA/133 ï¿½88.01 (x2 ï¿½176.02)

or

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 Serial ATA 120GB 8MB ï¿½96.23 (x2 ï¿½192.46)

which gives me a very respectable 240GBs. . . . .still the question remains is there any advantages to using native SATA drives over Serillel on PATA?

Wayne ][

John Lewis · Jul 14, 2003

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:11:34 +0000 (UTC), "Wayne Youngman" wrote:

TomG wrote:
it may not be as fast but it will work with the PATA drives on
Serillel-2 adapters... the Raptor drives seem to be real fast since
they are 10K rpm drives if you do happen to decide to go after SATA
drives.

Hi Tom,

thanks for reply, hmmm firstly I'm not sure if the NF7-S comes with Serillel-2, it says just plain Serillel, not sure what the difference is?.

The Serillel1 will NOTsupport the following functions on the NF7-S Silicon Image SATA controller:-

Hot-Swap.
ATAPI devices (DVD, Cd-Roms etc)
ATAPI Boot

Effectively the Serillel 1 is obsolete...........

Yes I was looking at the Raptor drives but the capacity is rather small (36.7GB) and the price is not as keen here in the U.K (ï¿½113.39). If I was making more money from my audio/visual skills I may be tempted to shell-out ï¿½226.78 for 73.4Gbs of blistering 10,000RPM SATA disk in Raid-0, but it looks like better value opting for:

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 120GB 8MB Cache ATA/133 ï¿½88.01 (x2 ï¿½176.02)

or

Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 Serial ATA 120GB 8MB ï¿½96.23 (x2 ï¿½192.46)

...

No, since 99% of the current SATA drives are really PATA drives with SATA to PATA converters on board. The Raptor might be the only exception. Mucho $$$ for very little capacity..................and speed benefit for what applications ??? Not Digital video streaming which only needs 7MBytes per second for DV50.

John Lewis

Wayne ][

Ken Kauffman · Jul 14, 2003

"John Lewis" wrote:

| On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:11:34 +0000 (UTC), "Wayne Youngman" | wrote:
|
| >TomG wrote:
| >> it may not be as fast but it will work with the PATA drives on | >> Serillel-2 adapters... the Raptor drives seem to be real fast since | >> they are 10K rpm drives if you do happen to decide to go after SATA | >> drives. | > | >Hi Tom, | > | >thanks for reply, hmmm firstly I'm not sure if the NF7-S comes with | >Serillel-2, it says just plain Serillel, not sure what the difference is?. | | The Serillel1 will NOTsupport the following functions on the NF7-S | Silicon Image SATA controller:- | | Hot-Swap. | ATAPI devices (DVD, Cd-Roms etc) | ATAPI Boot | | Effectively the Serillel 1 is obsolete........... | | >Yes I was looking at the Raptor drives but the capacity is rather small | >(36.7GB) and the price is not as keen here in the U.K (ï¿½113.39). If I was | >making more money from my audio/visual skills I may be tempted to shell-out | >ï¿½226.78 for 73.4Gbs of blistering 10,000RPM SATA disk in Raid-0, but it | >looks like better value opting for:
| >
| >Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 120GB 8MB Cache ATA/133 ï¿½88.01 (x2 ï¿½176.02) | > | >or | > | >Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 Serial ATA 120GB 8MB ï¿½96.23 (x2 ï¿½192.46) | > | >which gives me a very respectable 240GBs. . . . .still the question remains | >is there any advantages to using native SATA drives over Serillel on PATA? | > | | No, since 99% of the current SATA drives are really PATA drives with | SATA to PATA converters on board. The Raptor might be the only | exception. Mucho $$$ for very little capacity..................and | speed benefit for what applications ??? Not Digital video streaming | which only needs 7MBytes per second for DV50. | | John Lewis | | >Wayne ][ | > | > |

You should really read this article on the differences in the drives. It compares the Diamond Max 9 P-ATA, DMax 9 S-ATA and the Ratpor:

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3998,a=44186,00.asp

While the Raptor is faster, it is also single platter. Makes it more reliable but noisier also.

ken k

TomG · Jul 14, 2003

I can't say for sure that native SATA drives in the current generation of drives, will consistently outperform PATA drives on Serillel adaptors. Regarding Serillel-2, the IC7 series of boards requires that adapter so I am just in the habit of using that version of adapter when I speak of SATA I guess...

ultimately, SATA is supposed to outperform the current ATA100 interface and one would think that as the SATA interface matures, the next generations of true SATA drives will be faster yet than any current PATA drive.

Ken Kauffman · Jul 15, 2003

"TomG" wrote:

| I can't say for sure that native SATA drives in the current generation of | drives, will consistently outperform PATA drives on Serillel adaptors. | Regarding Serillel-2, the IC7 series of boards requires that adapter so I am | just in the habit of using that version of adapter when I speak of SATA I | guess... | | ultimately, SATA is supposed to outperform the current ATA100 interface and | one would think that as the SATA interface matures, the next generations of | true SATA drives will be faster yet than any current PATA drive. | | -- | | Thomas Geery | Network+ certified | | ftp://geerynet.d2g.com | ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP | This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!... | over 113,000 FTP users served! | ^^^^^^^ | | | | | "Wayne Youngman" wrote:
|
| > TomG wrote:
| > > it may not be as fast but it will work with the PATA drives on | > > Serillel-2 adapters... the Raptor drives seem to be real fast since | > > they are 10K rpm drives if you do happen to decide to go after SATA | > > drives. | > | > Hi Tom, | > | > thanks for reply, hmmm firstly I'm not sure if the NF7-S comes with | > Serillel-2, it says just plain Serillel, not sure what the difference is?. | > Yes I was looking at the Raptor drives but the capacity is rather small | > (36.7GB) and the price is not as keen here in the U.K (ï¿½113.39). If I was | > making more money from my audio/visual skills I may be tempted to | shell-out | > ï¿½226.78 for 73.4Gbs of blistering 10,000RPM SATA disk in Raid-0, but it | > looks like better value opting for:
| >
| > Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 120GB 8MB Cache ATA/133 ï¿½88.01 (x2 ï¿½176.02) | > | > or | > | > Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 Serial ATA 120GB 8MB ï¿½96.23 (x2 ï¿½192.46) | > | > which gives me a very respectable 240GBs. . . . .still the question | remains | > is there any advantages to using native SATA drives over Serillel on PATA? | > | > Wayne ][ | > | > | |

There is not much difference at this point. Did you get the chance to read the benchmarks done at ExtremeTech? I thought the architectural differences were interesting between the Raptor and the others. While it spins faster, its still "chattier" because of the single platter and really only shines in certain scenarios that are closer to enterprise use vs. home use. There is signifcantly MINOR difference in speed between the SATA and PATA versions of the diamond max drives, which leads me down the path of saving money with PATA to "raid up the mobo". The DM9s are also very quiet overall.

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3998,a=44186,00.asp

The article does misquote the interface as being a 133 ATA. The maxtor site specifically references that the drive is a 150 interface on the SATA. http://www.maxtor.com/en/products/ata/desktop/diamondmax_plus_9/features.htm

One question that I have is about the constant argument between "next generation" SATA and SCSI. It is my understanding that the SCSI interface is able to support higher *sustained* data rates *and* be able to provide a greater parallel accessibility, which is why it is suited for enterprise class servers. While the SATA interface is getting faster, can it support the sustained transfer rates with concurrent access the way that SCSI can. If you have any insight or references confirming (or blasting) my assumptions, please feel free to contribute!

Thanks

ken k

Wayne Youngman · Jul 15, 2003

Ken Kauffman wrote:

There is not much difference at this point. Did you get the chance to read the benchmarks done at ExtremeTech? I thought the architectural differences were interesting between the Raptor and the others. While it spins faster, its still "chattier" because of the single platter and really only shines in certain scenarios that are closer to enterprise use vs. home use. There is signifcantly MINOR difference in speed between the SATA and PATA versions of the diamond max drives, which leads me down the path of saving money with PATA to "raid up the mobo". The DM9s are also very quiet overall.

Hi Ken and TomG,

thanks greatly for the replies, it clears a few things up for me. As I understand it even the SATA drives available now are *converted* PATA drives, meaning they may not be 100% native SATA, but regardless they carry a price premium. As cash is a little tight right now I figure I will go with the PATA drives (unless the extra Serillel adapter costs BIG ï¿½ï¿½ $$). I still never used/set-up a RAID machine so that's something I am looking forward too, whether its SATA or PATA. Laters,

Wayne ][

TomG · Jul 15, 2003

in the US, a Serillel-2 kit goes for about $25.

Mark (84) · Jul 19, 2003

I have 2 wd 120gb hd's on 2 Serillel 2's and it is working fine. Gets about 60,000 in Sisoft and 50,000 in HD Tach 2.61. Been working without issue for about three weeks now.

Wayne Youngman · Jul 20, 2003

Ken Kauffman wrote:

You should really read this article on the differences in the drives. It compares the Diamond Max 9 P-ATA, DMax 9 S-ATA and the Ratpor:

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3998,a=44186,00.asp

While the Raptor is faster, it is also single platter. Makes it more reliable but noisier also.

Hi,

I somehow missed this post from a few days ago, but I followed the link and found it useful. SATA seems to be the better buy. .

thanks again all,

Wayne ][