Scroll Bars - Old Style vs. New Style

Discussion in 'Apple' started by TaliesinSoft, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. TaliesinSoft

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    It seems that since the release of Lion I've heard a fair number of
    grumps regarding the new style of the scroll bars. My response is that
    the new style is quite superior, eliminating a bit of display clutter.
    I have no difficultyl scrolling with my Magic Trackpad and admittedly
    only given my Magic Mouse a small number of tries.

    So, I'm curious as to the other's here in this group regarding their
    experiences with the new style scroll bars.
     
    TaliesinSoft, Jul 14, 2012
    #1
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  2. TaliesinSoft

    Király Guest

    I prefer the old. The styling of the new is kinda nice, but they're too
    small and narrow. In this day of 27 inch monitors I can't understand the
    usability advantage of making them smaller.
     
    Király, Jul 14, 2012
    #2
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  3. I'm happy with them. My granddaughters, who have had minimal time using
    them, don't seem to like them. I'd tell them "Move up, Luddites!", but I
    don't think they'd know what I was talking about.

    leo
     
    Leonard Blaisdell, Jul 14, 2012
    #3
  4. TaliesinSoft

    Lewis Guest

    Scrolling with the Magic Trackpad is no problem at all since you don't
    use the scrollbars.
    When I am already using the trackman I find the behavior of the scroll
    bars to be so obnoxious and annoying that I am convinced they were
    designed *specifically* to be annoying and obnoxious.

    I have been using mice since 1986 pretty much every day. It is quite
    hard for me to get the scroll bar to appears, and when I do get it to
    appear, it is quite hard to grab the little tiny thumb to drag.

    When dealing with long documents, the Trackpad is inadequate because it
    takes multiple swipes to scroll long distances, so you need the
    scroll-wheel, but it pops up for such a fleeting time that it can take 2
    or 3 tries to get it.

    It's better in Mnt Lion.
     
    Lewis, Jul 14, 2012
    #4
  5. TaliesinSoft

    Davoud Guest

    TaliesinSoft:
    If evolution hadn't prepared us to adapt and become accustomed to
    change we would not be here to comment on scroll bars. I am thoroughly
    accustomed to the Lion scroll bars and I no longer consider them to be
    new. By now they are as natural as the former scheme, and I don't
    notice them at all.

    There are, of course, persons who are quite determined not to accept or
    adapt to change, and who will spite themselves to maintain their
    obstinacy. Such persons are usually called conservatives, but
    regressives is the more appropriate term, since they waste their lives
    trying to circumvent the laws of thermodynamics and turn back the
    clock.
     
    Davoud, Jul 14, 2012
    #5
  6. TaliesinSoft

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    On 2012-07-14 05:30:07 +0000, Király said:

    [commenting on the new style scrollbars]
    I find the width of the new scrollbars perfectly adequate to convey the
    needed information clearly and without taking up unnecessary room in
    the window. I'm using a 21.5 inch iMac with the screen resolution set
    to 1600 x 900 pixels.
     
    TaliesinSoft, Jul 14, 2012
    #6
  7. Mine parallel yours.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jul 14, 2012
    #7
  8. TaliesinSoft

    Alan Browne Guest

    With the trackpad they're fine since you don't need the scroll bars at
    all except, occasionally, as a visual guide to position in a window.

    With a mouse (if it has a scroll wheel) it comes to the same thing. (Or
    magic mouse I suppose, but I haven't tried one).

    As Kiraly says, on large screens the smaller bars don't contribute much
    to de-clutter - but on the smaller screen of the MBA it certainly does.

    Apple could have included a "narrow/wide" option for the scroll bars.
     
    Alan Browne, Jul 14, 2012
    #8
  9. TaliesinSoft

    dorayme Guest

    That would not be the native setting for the screen would it? It would
    be more like 1920 by something. These LCD screens set at anything but
    native always look less than sharp to me unlike the big old CRT's in
    this respect, you could vary them in res and they remained sharpish
    over a few ranges.
     
    dorayme, Jul 14, 2012
    #9
  10. Anybody here have to use both Lion and a pre-Lion system, where
    scrolling goes "the other way"? I find going back and forth causes
    me to scroll the wrong way relatively often. I'm sure if I only
    used the "new way", I'd be used to it quickly enough.

    With the scroll bars becoming invisible, it is annoying that you
    sometimes can't tell, without trying to scroll, if there is any more
    content to scroll to.

    Martin
     
    Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu, Jul 15, 2012
    #10
  11. Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu
    You can change the behavior in Lion to be the "old way".
    You can set the scroll bars in lion to be always visible; however, you
    won't have the arrows at the ends.

    Also, if you try to scroll, and there's no more content, you'll get that
    little bounce that some people complain about.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Jul 15, 2012
    #11
  12. TaliesinSoft

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    The native resolution of my iMac is 1920 by 1080. I lowered the
    resolution to 1600 by 900 so that text would appear a bit larger,
    helping me to see it better. As an aside it is interesting how much
    sharper letters of the same size appear on my retina display iPad.
     
    TaliesinSoft, Jul 15, 2012
    #12
  13. TaliesinSoft

    Király Guest

    I turned off "natural scrolling" so that it behaves the same way it
    always has.

    It's interesting that third party tools have been available for ages
    that reverse the scrolling direction, and almost nobody was interested.
    But when Apple did it and made it the default, everybody jumped on the
    bandwagon.
    That's why I don't understand the scroll bars being hidden by default.
    With the visible scroll bar I can tell at a glance:

    -if there is more content to view,
    -about what point in the document I am at, and
    -about what percentage of the entire document is visible at the time.

    All useful stuff to know; I'm not sure why someone would want this info
    hidden, but I guess people have their reasons. What surprises me is how
    Apple considers this number to be so big as to make it the default.
     
    Király, Jul 15, 2012
    #13
  14. TaliesinSoft

    Lewis Guest

     
    Lewis, Jul 15, 2012
    #14
  15. TaliesinSoft

    Lewis Guest

    Since I use the MagicTrackpad for scrolling and I have that only on Lion
    systems, no, I don't have the problem. On non lion systems I use a
    scroll wheel, and it works correctly.

    (I wish Lion would allow one setting for trackpads and the oppositie for
    scroll wheels).
     
    Lewis, Jul 15, 2012
    #15
  16. TaliesinSoft

    Lewis Guest

    Because it makes sense with a trackpad. It really is the natural way to
    scroll. I remember some people complaining about the iphone scrolling
    'backwards', but they were wrong. You touch something and move up and
    the content should move up. Simple. Works with any touch surface.
    Doesn't work with a scroll wheel at all.
     
    Lewis, Jul 15, 2012
    #16
  17. TaliesinSoft

    Lewis Guest

    No, it's not. You made your iMac fuzzy.

    Granted, the iPad would still be sharper, but you made the difference a lot more dramatic.
     
    Lewis, Jul 15, 2012
    #17
  18. TaliesinSoft

    dorayme Guest

    Yes, I realise that is the reason. Some friends of mine do the same.
    My solution to this prob is to get a bigger screen at 1920 across (the
    pixels are just bigger and everything is) and keep it native res. My
    Macbook screen is very tiresome at its native res but would be too
    ugly a sight at anything but. Luckily I have other screens. Two of
    them are 1920 x 1200, the 26" one is nicer than the the 24" because
    everything is a little bigger but still sharp.


    Nothing is the best on LCDs not set at native resolution. But "letters
    of the same size" is open to different interpretations.
     
    dorayme, Jul 15, 2012
    #18
  19. TaliesinSoft

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    On 2012-07-15 07:55:36 +0000, Lewis said:

    [in respoonse to my having stated]
    I have a bit of a visual problem with the display set to 1920 by 1080,
    an example being the text in the menubar, and that is why I changed the
    resolution to 1600 by 900, making it easier for me to see. Admittedly
    the text may be a bit fuzzier but the difference in size makes it more
    readable for me.
     
    TaliesinSoft, Jul 15, 2012
    #19
  20. TaliesinSoft

    Paul Sture Guest

    There's certainly a case for a third party add-on for pre-Lion systems to
    enable Lion like behaviour. Caveat: I have no idea how feasible this
    would be to implement.
    I had this very problem with Linux Mint 11. It appears that the Ubuntu
    folks have jumped onto a similar paradigm in this area. If you didn't
    know that an area was scrollable your only hint was an extremely thin
    vertical line in green and on a small screen that was hard to see. At
    best you waved your mouse around in the general direction of where you
    thought the scrollbar might appear.

    I skipped that version because of this behaviour. Apparently it was
    configurable but by the time I found that out I had lost the will to be
    bothered.
     
    Paul Sture, Jul 15, 2012
    #20
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