Sinking, sinking, ...

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Willy, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. Willy

    Willy Guest

    Willy, Dec 21, 2006
    #1
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  2. does anyone actually think resellerratings information is meaningful? it is
    a place where unhappy people go to die.
    as bad as you think resellerrattings numbers for dell are, have a look at
    toshiba, gateway, hewlett packard, compaq, and emachines... dell still tops
    them all. given that all the majors numbers are so bad, if i were dell i
    would take their numbers as a compliment since they are king of the pack.
     
    Christopher Muto, Dec 21, 2006
    #2
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  3. Willy

    J. Brad Guest

    Yes, I believe Resellerrratings more than I believe other sources like
    Consumer Reports. At least nobody is probably being paid by posting. Not
    sure what "a place where unhappy people go to die" means???
    Personally, I believe Dell is still better than some of the other
    companies; however, I do believe Dell has gone WAY down hill over the
    past few years. I've been a Dell customer for about 12 years. In
    addition, I service many Dell products. The products are still OK ( I
    think the laptops not well built), but the customer service has become
    terrible.
     
    J. Brad, Dec 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Willy

    Leythos Guest

    When I'm looking for a new vendor I also use resellerratings.com, they
    have been reliable as long as you get a large enough sample.

    I agree with you about Dell - they use to be my single source for
    Servers and Workstations, and now I source IBM and white boxes for
    Servers (and a typical server runs about $25,000), and I use a local
    vendor for all my workstations and clients workstations.

    About the only thing I get from dell is the residential systems for
    people that need 24/7 support and hand holding.
     
    Leythos, Dec 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Willy

    Notan Guest

    "I think the laptops not well built..."

    Which laptops you think not well built, kemo sabe.

    Me think'm Latitude very good.

    Notan
     
    Notan, Dec 22, 2006
    #5
  6. Willy

    J. Brad Guest

    In my opinion, the Inspirons are poorly and cheaply built. Yes, the
    Latitudes are a bit better in build quality. I always recommend the IBM
    Thinkpads if one wants a well built laptop. Also, Toshiba is makes a
    good laptop as well.
     
    J. Brad, Dec 22, 2006
    #6
  7. Willy

    Leythos Guest

    I don't buy Dell laptops any more, while I don't like that the Levono
    are built in China, they appear to be very strong and our field-reps
    have not had any problems/damage to them in the 6+ months they've been
    in the field with them.
     
    Leythos, Dec 22, 2006
    #7
  8. Willy

    Tom Scales Guest

    I own three Dells and one Toshiba.

    The Inpsirons are showing wear, but they're my teenagers and teenagers are
    tough on laptops.

    The Toshiba is just cheap.. Very cheap.

    Thinkpads are the best
     
    Tom Scales, Dec 22, 2006
    #8
  9. Willy

    Ben Myers Guest

    I've just taken apart and put together several Dell Latitudes and IBM Thinkpads.
    No doubt that the Thinkpads are more ruggedly made. But the Latitudes seem to
    hold together pretty well... Ben
     
    Ben Myers, Dec 22, 2006
    #9
  10. if you are just talking about build quality i agree. but with thinkpads
    twice the price of a similar dell/toshiba/hp/compaq i would go with the
    cheaper one and replace it sooner and enjoy the shorter life cycle and newer
    technology. perhaps in a business setting with a client that wants minimal
    equipment replacement/upgrades for various reasons i would feel differently,
    otherwise it just doesn't add up for me.

    ps. nobody commented on the fact that as low as the resellerratting numbers
    are for dell the numbers for every other major brand are even lower. so
    whoever started this 'sinking sinking' thread with the intention of
    slighting dell was actually complimenting them. i love the irony. is this
    making any sense to anyone else? it is a compliment!
     
    Christopher Muto, Dec 22, 2006
    #10
  11. Willy

    Tom Scales Guest

    I would agree on everything except the X Series. If you want an Ultralight
    (and I like them), the X is the only way to go
     
    Tom Scales, Dec 22, 2006
    #11
  12. Willy

    Ben Myers Guest

    Comments:

    I was not ripping the Latitudes to shreds for lack of quality. It's just that
    there is a discernable difference in sturdiness in favor of IBM-designed
    ThinkPads. My own notebook for light duty use is a Latitude I rebuilt, but I
    am not really a road warrior. If I spent a lot of time on the road, I would
    own a ThinkPad, because I would want to minimize the odds of any downtime at
    all.

    It is noteworthy that IBM first withdrew from the consumer market, then sold the
    whole personal computer operation off to Lenovo. IBM executives made two
    conscious decisions, both in support of the concept that they would not
    compromise IBM's well-deserved reputation for quality. Lenovo is now
    struggling along trying to create its own identity in the US marketplace, also
    selling ThinkPads at very hefty discounts through retailers who generally cater
    to corporate buyers.

    Way back when, I had a number of business dealings with IBM, and IBM definitely
    is one of the companies with a passion for high quality flowing in its blue
    veins. I recall one meeting with the hardware designers of the lamentable
    PS/2. They were extremely proud of the high quality and workmanship of the
    PS/2, as well as the software needed to configure each and every card installed
    in a PS/2 box. The PS/2 engineers became almost enraged when I criticized the
    design of one of the cards as having too many accountants on its hardware design
    team. The PS/2's built-in hardware to identify each device was a few years
    ahead of its time, and something eventually incorporated into PCI after
    suggested the same to some Intel PCI guys, drawing on my own years of mainframe
    hardware/software experience. Configuing a PS/2 was a serious pain in the ass,
    just like an EISA desktop or server system, because the configuration utility
    had to boot and run from floppy diskette, and very slowly. And you were
    completely lost if you did not have the configuration diskette for whatever
    model of PS/2 or EISA system you were working on.

    I have very little faith in the numbers from a self-selecting survey like
    resellerratting. The people who tend to respond are the ones with a gripe.
    Dell and HP sell more computers, so it stands to reason that there will be
    numerically more gripes, even if the percentage of gripes is lower. The
    quality of telephone tech support available from every name brand computer
    company absolutely sucks, and most of the complaints in resellerratting start
    with a phone call to tech support on another continent or planet. The good
    news here is that I get a lot of service business from people who cannot or will
    not deal with vendor telephone support, so I won't complain too loudly. It
    helps if you own a computer and someone local speaks your dialect of English,
    providing clear explanations of problems and solutions. Needless to say, I
    much prefer to work on Dell and IBM systems because I can get far better on line
    tech info about them than I can for any other brand name, altho Gateway (but not
    eMachines!) on-line info is fairly good.

    .... Ben Myers
     
    Ben Myers, Dec 22, 2006
    #12
  13. Willy

    Leythos Guest

    For more than 6 years I've found them to be a reliable source of
    information on vendors.
     
    Leythos, Dec 22, 2006
    #13
  14. reliable in what way? you find that highly rated vendors are indeed good?
    or you find that badly rated vendors are indeed bad (which makes me wonder
    why you would engage with the badly rated vendors). it is largely a place
    where people go to vent their frustrations, and were lesser know vendors go
    to pump up their own reputations. anyone can engage in 'ballot box
    stuffing' by submitting multiple compliments or complaints. i think their
    information is statistically useless. here's an old cnn article suggesting
    the same... it is a nice idea that was implemented badly.
    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/05/26/web.store.rating.idg/index.html
     
    Christopher Muto, Dec 22, 2006
    #14
  15. Willy

    Leythos Guest

    Before I make a purchase from a new vendor I check out the reviews in
    several places, and also with people (if I can find them) that have made
    purchases.

    In general, if a company has a positive review, with 200+ reviews, I
    feel more comfortable and start doing my own detailed research - local
    better business group, complaints to their state, how long they have
    been in business, what other companies they did business as....

    So, I look at them for their positive reviews, as a key to start looking
    at that vendor more closely.

    In reading the reviews I also find that the negative ones tend to
    indicate when a good company has started going bad, based on their
    return history/complaints, etc...
    And you can generally tell when a vendor has posted their own comments
    to make their review look better, all you have to do is check the style
    of writing to see.
    Maybe, but my experience gives me a good impression, if you understand
    what you're looking at, and a good place to start for research.
     
    Leythos, Dec 22, 2006
    #15
  16. that all sounds completely reasonable, but the problem i see is that the low
    ratings in and of themselves don't tell you very much. for instance, the
    general feeling of the group is that dell is a good company dispite it
    flaws, yet the reseller ratings are very very low... yet when you look at
    all the other major computer retailers, all of which are even lower, it
    suggests that dell is the best of the lot. so a quick look at one company
    from a site like reseller ratings can give a inaccurate indication of the
    quality of that company. ok, i think i have beaten this dead horse enough.
    i get your point and suspect that you also get mine. happy holidays.
     
    Christopher Muto, Dec 22, 2006
    #16
  17. Willy

    Ben Myers Guest

    And now Irene will chime in with some response about a Dellbot.

    The real problem here is that there are few sources of revenue for anyone who
    might do some sort of objective product analysis and testing and/or objective
    surveys. Damn near every survey is tainted by whomever pays for it, e.g. a
    Microsoft-sponsored survey which finds out that Linux servers have higher life
    cycle costs that Windows Servers. Supposedly objective product analysis is
    tainted, too. Read a traditional paper magazine like PC Magazine or on-line
    reviews like CNet, and you rarely see any hard-hitting and critical analysis.
    The best you can say is that the one-off product reviews rarely have lousy
    products as their subjects, unless the vendor is a big name. And even then,
    the reviewer soft-shoes around the issues, because the big name vendor will pull
    its ads. Editorial independence in discussing ANY consumer products is no
    more. The other issue is the short turnaround time demanded by media editors.
    How on earth can someone do a thorough job of reviewing 23 notebook computers,
    selecting the best and writing about it in a week's time? That's what
    editorial deadlines are about. Okay, maybe a little bit of exaggeration, but
    "been there, done that." It's like a visit to a sausage factory. You don't
    want to see how it is done... Ben Myers

     
    Ben Myers, Dec 22, 2006
    #17
  18. Willy

    Leythos Guest

    I don't put stock in reports from larger media outlets, as I was sore to
    learn about PC Mag and Zeos back in the early 90's.

    Most all of us can read hundreds of reviews and pick out the crap and
    the real reviews, even circuitcity.com has live reviews of systems.

    I stopped purchasing Dell because of their support and inability to
    configure servers online. When I do get a config, then send it to the
    sales drone for a quote, they always seem to make a mistake and not
    quote the same Dell Part numbers I've sent them (actually taking the
    system details and sending it to them).

    In the last year, while spending about 800K on computers (servers,
    workstations, laptops), we only purchased 1 from Dell. We've moved to
    IBM for Servers/Laptops (due to quality, and cost), and HP for one class
    of servers, but we whitebox the workstations and thin-terminals from a
    local vendor.
     
    Leythos, Dec 22, 2006
    #18
  19. Willy

    J. Brad Guest

    "it is largely a place where people go to vent their frustrations, and
    were lesser know vendors go to pump up their own reputations". Wrong!
    Does not appear alll these folks were frustrated with a company called
    NewEgg. Are you a Dell emplyee or stockholder? Just Curious? :)



    http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Newegg
     
    J. Brad, Dec 22, 2006
    #19
  20. Willy

    S.Lewis Guest



    You might've also mentioned the very rare air that system-builder Falcon
    Northwest seems to be occupying, and/or the previous highs of system builder
    Alienware and how/why their numbers seem to be dropping since Dell bought
    the company.

    Other hardware vendors of note along the lines of NewEgg: ZipZoomFly, EWiz,
    etc.......

    I've just not put much stock in RR.com, only because I rely on the canaries
    in various coal mines such as this group to indicate what is going on -
    along with a fairly small circle of respected friends and my own
    experiences.


    Stew
     
    S.Lewis, Dec 23, 2006
    #20
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