Skybuck's Dream PC dead again for the (4th?) zillion-th time ?!? (Electrical fault with X-Fi Elite P

Discussion in 'Asus' started by Skybuck Flying, May 6, 2011.

  1. The next step I am going to take is investigate if my AMD X2 3800
    Yeah as I expected it's the close to 90 watt processor, it's way too hot and
    it will need to be replaced.

    This is the exact model I have:

    AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (code name manchester, 90 nm)

    ADA3800DAA5BV:

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-Athlon 64 X2 3800+ - ADA3800DAA5BV (ADA3800BVBOX).html

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 11, 2011
    #21
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  2. Nothing wrong with my building skills, even a monkey can put together a
    PC... that's not the problem ! ;)

    It's the components them selfes that suck... perhaps at the time there was
    little choice, later on came AM2 sockets which had much lower TDP processors
    (35 watt instead of socket 939 90 watt)

    Perhaps those 90 watt processors should never have been produced in the
    first place ! ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 11, 2011
    #22
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  3. Skybuck Flying

    Del Cecchi Guest

    If so, then the designer of the board was an incompetent fool, and
    should be fired or at least given some extra training. Power resistors
    need to be derated or specially mounted to keep them from burning the
    board. A 10 watt resistor cannot dissipate 10 watts when mounted on a
    pc board. Sheesh.snip
     
    Del Cecchi, May 12, 2011
    #23
  4. Think single-side/no layer PC boards from the 60's thru the early 80's..

    I take it that you haven't dealt with stuff that's 15-20 years past it's
    own design life? It's not really an excuse for the original designer,
    but that's the reality of where much of the critical stuff is at today.
    In the above, it's often that the "burner board" was installed in a
    "control cabinet" that was 90+% "empty space". There was no
    airflow/cooling issues then. That same "control cabinet" has been
    stuffed to the gills with added gear until there was not enough airflow
    to stop the burn.

    I'm sharing some of the guilt on that, guess who put all the extra crap
    in? (Usually under protest). If you can't get the real estate, you do
    this crap.

    I've seen some of those boards in "updated versions", the fix was to cut
    a window in the board underneath where the burns occurred. Crude, but it
    works.

    But in the end run, those burns seldom resulted in a true fail. All we
    did was carve out the burn with a knife if we could swap it out or take
    it off-line, and that was mainly for looks.





    --
    "Shit this is it, all the pieces do fit.
    We're like that crazy old man jumping
    out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
    saying, "Remember me motherfucker?"
    Jim “Dandy” Mangrum
     
    Nobody > (Revisited), May 12, 2011
    #24
  5. Hmm apperently "current" situation (1) can indeed create a buzzing/humming
    effect and can even lead to eletricution danger !

    According to this wikipedia link for english people ! ;)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_(electricity)

    It mentions the connecting all stuff to one group to make things a little
    bit better. (As drawn in situation 2 ?! I hope it helps)

    So the point could be: I probably shocked my PC/motherboard to death (which
    motherboard component is most likely to fail from something like that ???) !
    ;) =D But I bet it would have probably failed a few months/years later from
    heat as well...

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 12, 2011
    #25
  6. Ok,

    I understand this now a bit better...

    Apperently all this time there was 120 volts on my PC casing because it
    wasn't grounded... this is apperently standard...

    I have probably felt this tingling before... I used to touch my pc case
    believing that it could help get rid of static electricity ;) I thought the
    static electricity would travel to my body so I could pass it on to
    something else... that was pretty stupid.

    But because it's a "fluctuating voltage" apperently it's not dangerous for
    "healthy human beings".

    However I am a bit skeptical about that... perhaps this 120 volts gave me
    swellings inside my body... so I will investigate that further later....

    Well all equipment is powered by 240 volts which gets divided by 2... so
    receiver also on 120 volts casing I guess...

    So somewhere somehow some potential difference accord... now I go read on...
    ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck :)
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 12, 2011
    #26
  7. Rest of ramble removed.

    Hi Skybuck.

    I've followed your antics over the last few years and can only think that it's
    your instinct for instantly jumping to totally unfounded and unrelated
    conclusions to perceived problems that produce all your troubles in the first
    place! I can't for the life of me understand how you manage to destroy so much
    computer hardware.

    Before you do anything else, get your home rewired with Euro standard Schuko
    type F Earthed sockets. That will help with your suspected 120V floating cases
    problem, although why you should think the Euro standard 230 Volt mains supply
    will get divided by 2 seems strange to me.

    I've been running what is essentially the same motherboard as you (an Asus A8N
    SLi Deluxe) with an AMD Opteron 170 Dual core processor (90W) overclocked to
    2.75GHz since 2006, in a smaller Cooler Master Centurion 531 case, with 5
    harddiscs, a DVD ReWriter and a 3½" combined floppy drive/memory card reader. I
    use The similar nVidia 7900GS video card, and a Seasonic 600W PSU to run that
    lot. The only thing I don't have is a separate sound card in there, although I
    did at one time run a second 7900GS card in SLi mode, but didn't find it made
    much difference.

    The only problem that I've ever had with it is that the Deluxe motherboard,
    unlike your Premium version which has a heatpipe, suffered from dying chipset
    fans, so I rigged a small 60mm fan attached to the video card cover to blow
    onto the heatsink of the chipset, from which I'd removed the fan. Since then
    it's been fine!

    I'm going to build my new i7 system in the very same Antec 1200 case that you
    use now. That case is HUGE!!! How you can possibly get your system to overheat
    in that I cannot imagine!

    Unless you really do have so much money that you can afford to throw even more
    away on yet another new system to wreck, I'd suggest that you take the advice
    of myself and others here lately, and buy yourself a Dell or something else
    readymade, and have the case welded shut!

    Having said that, I would miss the comedy to be had from your future posts!

    Best of luck though.

    Pixiecherub.
     
    Sarah E. Bailey, May 12, 2011
    #27
  8. Oooohhh ;) :) =D
    Hello there Sarah ! A girl/woman which knows stuff about computerrrrsss
    that's rare ! ;) =D

    You have, have you ?! ;) =D Well I am glad you enjoyed it secretly ! ;) =D
    It's not my instinct, usually I try to find most likely cause, but since I
    know very little about electronics I simply shutgon the shit out of it with
    all kinds of whacky theories... I mostly to do this to be able to tell the
    bad from the good... bad people will believe the shit... good people will
    not... though sometimes I might even be on to something or inspire people to
    think outside the box ;)
    Your theory that my conclusions are unfounded and unrelated are interesting
    and therefore I investigated it based on my messaging archive and am still
    investigating it further... it will discuss down below further.

    Some of the problems I saw a real like dust build up and perhaps also heat
    build up but if these problems actually lead to system death remains to be
    seen/proven.
    Neither can I though I have indicated sometimes that most likely cause of
    failure was electrical damage somehow and not necessarily heat related... I
    plan on replacing the bad wall sockets with grounded wall sockets to try and
    rule out that possible cause of damage. I shall have to consult my "land
    lord" or "appartment rent seller" or whatever it's called in english if it's
    wise to do so... I will probably try and do so anyway... unless a grounding
    cable is not available... then it becomes a bit of a problem... but my
    kitchen has grounding cables it seems... so the first real possibility which
    comes to mind is using a really long power extension cord but then it would
    run a little bit through my kitchen and over my floor but it wouldn't be too
    much of a problem to actually do that. Except that one plug would be upside
    down in the kitchen there are two holes available... and the bottom already
    used by magnetron/wave so that plug is a bit in the way or something, and if
    new plug is upside down it might get loose, so it would depend on the plug's
    shape if it's possible or not safely... but there are probably power
    extension boxes/plugs which are shaped nicely so they can fit in any
    direction/any hole.
    Yeah this is a good plan... before I do anything else I need to fix my home
    first which might be the cause of all damage.
    The case's power connector or something... divides it in two... maybe to
    fluctuate between +120 and -120 volts... which might be safer in case of
    touching it... the mussles don't go in one way but both ways which makes it
    easier to let go when human put under charge.

    The circuit is explained here, but it doesn't completely explain why it
    divides it in two... but I read another webpage which mentioned that this
    might be safer for mussles so maybe that's why... (not

    http://www.radionics.demon.nl/pc_aarden/aarding.html

    This page is dutch explains "fluctuating power" is better then "steady
    power".

    http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektrocutie
    According to this wikipedia webpage it has a TDP of 110W so to me it seems a
    bit dangerous to overclock it ;)
    Only 2.75 GHz ? ;) Mine is 2x2.0 GHz ! ;) =D

    That case is alluminium and buckles fast, not a good property to have for
    the daughtercards/extensioncards they might pop out.
    Why 5 harddisks what you doing with it, collecting porn ?! ;) =D
    Not sure how much that card uses in power and outputs but my guess would be
    60 watt or so... my gtx 7900 seems to be 80 watt or so. Watt=heat.
    No sound card ? But your motherboard does have onboard audio ?! So do you
    play any games ? ;)

    I guess you have a "simple" stereo device connected to it, while I have had
    a gigawork s750, which is about 7x80 watts or so... which is a lot of power
    being attached to my pc in a way... and later on a receiver which is also
    about that wattage... so there is another power hungry device at play in my
    situation.
    I did too with two gtx 7900 it helped in cod4 with +10 to +20 fps or so...as
    well in battlefield 2 +5 fps or so.
    But that's a lot of extra heat so I got rid of it in favor of soundcard
    which was in between too.
    So instead went with one card.

    Why did you remove it anyway ? ;)
    Could be a sign of heat trouble... the oil in the fan probably dried up
    causing it to fail... perhaps in combination with added dust and micro-dirty
    making it stuck or so.
    Sounds like the trouble I had with my chieftec case at the time which got
    replaced by the antec 1200.

    How did you manage to "rig" that fan in there ? How did you attach it ?!? A
    picture of it would be nice to see ! ;) =D
    I would not recommend the i7 because it's a very hot chip... instead I would
    go with one of the low powered Core i5 chips... the low powered chips work
    just as fast but they are a bit more expensive. I would go with the 35 watt
    versions instead of the 90 watt or even higher versions... My pentium III
    450 mhz was 35 watt and it's still working after something like 13 years or
    so ?!?
    This case has dust and slight sound issue's... putting it on all high fan
    speed will make a lot of sound...

    Medium fan speed gives nice airflow but it's not an "all fixer" tool...
    things obstructing the airflow can still lead to higher temperatures which I
    wouldn't feel comfortable with like +40 motherboard temperatures and +45 cpu
    temperatures.

    The dust filters also get easily stuffed with dust... all these fans causing
    lot's of dust... I live in dusty place... I don't vacuum clean that often...
    therefore this case and this "over powered pc" might not have been a too
    smart idea for me... but I wanted to give it a try... I had loads of fun
    with it, that puts smile on my face... but it also caused some shitty
    situations like now... all in all it was worth it from the fun
    perspective... but I have one little problem... I would like to keep it
    alive... and in that regards it kinda sux... I am also getting "old" I am
    not really old... but my energy levels a bit low... perhaps I should
    excersice more and perhaps I will... but I am getting a bit fed up with
    having to "fix" this computer every time... it just takes a lot of time to
    figure out what to do about it... so I hope to fix it... and hopefully once
    and for all... but I fear that won't happen... but at least I can try and
    make things better a little bit.

    The dust creates extra risks:

    1. Cannot put case on ground... if you would... it would suck up a lot of
    dust I bet ! Thus must be placed on desk... hitting desk could lead to
    harddisk damage... so it has risks... overall it's probably better to buy a
    case which can be placed on the ground and therefore I would still consider
    this antec 1200 a bad case in general... that's why this heat issue might
    not even be a direct problem... but it's leading to all kinds of other
    problems... which might ultimately lead to serious problems... like
    overheat, cleaning issues, static elec issue's and perhaps even fire.

    2. Having to clean the case and open it to get dust filters out (cpu/window
    dust filter) and pulling out harddisk trays to get near the front dust
    filters introduces further risks: damage risk to hd when pulling it out...
    and static electricity risks. I even vaccuum cleaned it a little bit which
    is dangerous because of static elec coming from it but I kept it at distance
    few centimeters but who knows... elec might still jump over.

    3. Low fan speed might still not be enough, especially in summer... my place
    gets 7 degrees to 10 degrees hotter in summer... so that might be big
    difference compared to your situation if you life in a cool place ! ;) =D
    Fortunately antec 1200 has "high speed" so that can fight the heat a bit ;)

    4. Large cpu coolers are a bad idea... they obstruct more airflow then they
    solve... especially the passive cpu heatsinks.

    5. CPU heatsinks/gpu heatsinks get full with dust and might reduce
    effectiveness and might create hotspots.
    I don't wanna spent to much money because then I would look like a fool ! ;)
    =D
    I'd rather not get a full new system... I am starting to run out of space to
    place it... though I'd very much like a new core i5 processor and cuda
    gpu... but I spent so much money on my dream pc that I should probably stick
    with it for another few years just to keep the trend going... the trend is
    5000 bucks per PC per 5 years... I sort of spent near 12.000 bucks/gulders
    (6.000 euro's) on this PC in 5 years... bucks=was gulders... but because of
    the euro it was doubled... didn't really realize that until I bought the
    system lol ! ;) =D so I guess I went way over budget ! ;)
    I'm afraid a Dell has way to many driver issue's, perhaps shitty hardware
    issue and would be way to weak for my purposes and then I would get annoyed
    with it real fast, start hitting it and then it would die ! ;) =D
    I like this idea of welding it shut... unfortunately then I can't add
    harddrives, which is a nice thing to do ;)
    Don't worry about that... lot's of comedy will always be coming forth from
    me ;)
    Thank you, I wish you lot's of luck with your new system as well... are you
    getting nervous with your current system, or you scared it will die too, are
    you having nightmares about the dead cpu fan ? ;) Why are you building a new
    system ? ;)

    I can't advice you on a better case since I haven't looked into it yet...
    but if I were to buy a new case I would try to buy one which I can place on
    the ground... maybe I would even buy extra long cables so I can keep it away
    from me as far as possible... and I would try to place the case somewhere
    where there is little dust build up... but dust usually creeps and lands
    near stuff anyway.. Also the human body sheds dust particles and these get
    sucked into the system if it's near a human being... so it would be better
    to try and keep the pc as far away as possible... There was a huge ammount
    of dust in the antec 1200 case... I don't like that one bit ! ;) Some dust
    is ok but this was a bit (too?!) much.

    Also if you do decide to get it... then be sure to remove the inside plastic
    near the third fan duct... there is this special black removeable thingy...
    it's only there to hold internal fans... if you don't need/place internal
    fan then it's probably better to remove it... for better airflow ;)
    Is this your little secret pseudoname ? ;)

    Also I don't meet that many woman that know stuff about computers... it
    would be interesting to see how you look like ;)

    If you wanna see how I look then send me a picture of yourself to: skybuck
    2000 at hotmail dot com... If I like what I see I might send you a picture
    back of myself ;) Perhaps with a little text which would read: "Hi there
    Sarah E ! ;) =D" so you know it's real... if possible you should do same
    thing and make special picture which reads: "Hi there Skybuck, it's me Sarah
    ! ;) =D".

    You don't have to get on it immediatly... for all I care you spent this in a
    couple of months... if you never send it that's ok too ! ;) =D

    I do wonder how old you are ?! If you don't wanna share a picture then
    perhaps you wanna tell us how old you are ? But I guess that's a bit of an
    indecent question to ask a woman ! ;) =D

    I googled you a bit and I also saw you use RISC OS ?! Never heard of it but
    read up onto it... and it seems kinda interesting... old/under
    powered/developed/few features... but still kinda interesting... perhaps
    if/when I get my PC working again I might give it a try with bootable vhd's
    or virtual pc's/vmware/emulatators or so... to see what it is and how it
    works etc... I probably won't be too impressed by it... but still fun to
    give it a try out of curiosity.

    Take care and may your electronically enhanced bra lift you towards
    un-imaginable success ! ;) =D

    Bye,
    Skybra =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 13, 2011
    #28
  9. Hhmm... I wrote that I would explain my investigations and what I learned
    from it further but failed to do so... the posting was already long so
    didn't do it... but I will in this follow up post... first a remark about my
    picture request... I am mostly interested in your face and how you look
    it... now onto the investigation report:

    In short:

    In 2008 my system/dream pc was acting weird, it was still using the chieftec
    case... the weird behaviour was probably caused by a defect memory chip... I
    didn't know at the time... I wasn't happy with the chieftec case... it was
    humming and was too hot for my liking... so I replaced it with the antec
    1200... also removed one graphics cards after a few days or so... two months
    later or so I discovered the bad memory chip and rma-ed it... and got two
    new ones for free from corsair.

    The same motherboard that I suspected of being fried was still being used...
    this surprised me today... it had the "burn" marks back in 2008, so it might
    have been burned by the chieftec case as well... for now I will assume the
    "shock" from the receiver caused it to die... I also found a little hair on
    it while it was on my table... but I suspect that hair land on it after I
    assembled it... hairs can cause system failures... but I don't think this is
    the case of it... perhaps I will test later to be sure...

    Conclusion:

    So far there is no real hard evidence that heat caused any deaths at all, it
    could all be electro-shock related, your system which must be running very
    hot could be further prove of this that heat inside a pc does not
    necessarily have to be a bad thing.

    However the gigaworks s750 sound system died as well, could also be
    shock-related, however an electronics repair dude says it could also be heat
    related.

    For now the main difference with my previous systems is much more heat and
    especially the receiver/second high power device attached to it... my
    previous pc's did not have a receiver attached to them... nor a gigaworks...
    so this new sound system situation could have lead to these deaths.

    Therefore it seems wise to replace wall power sockets with grounded wall
    sockets, hopefully that will not cause new issue's... I have already read
    that it can... I have to read up on those potential issue's... one issue is
    "ground loop" ?

    So I am not ready yet to replace wall sockets... first I have to read up
    onto potential disadventages and risks ;)

    So far it seems to at least be a more safe idea for me/humans to have
    grounded wall power sockets.

    (Perhaps what's good/safe for humans is also safe for electronics ! ;) =D)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 13, 2011
    #29
  10. d00d! u snd lik a virgin! u need too get fooked!!!!!
     
    Dr. Von Peebles, May 13, 2011
    #30
  11. Are there any non-virgins in these newsgroups ?! ;) =D LOL.

    Anyway, why do you think I sound like a virgin ?! ;) =D
    (What part of it was it exactly that makes you believe this ? ;))

    Bye,
    Skybuck =D
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 13, 2011
    #31
  12. Skybuck Flying

    GMAN Guest


    Yes, this "ALL" could be "electro shock related" LOL!!!!!
     
    GMAN, May 13, 2011
    #32
  13. Well, well, well, well well wellll....

    This puts on a new perspective on things:

    http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/technical/papers/engineering.shtml

    Might be heat afterall...

    Perhaps heat caused an eletrical failure... (on motherboard).

    But I still think shock had something to do with it as well...

    Maybe even both ;)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 18, 2011
    #33
  14. For the record.

    ESD fail theory can be shoved straight up your ass.

    I fokked my Pentium III 450 mhz harder then you can possibly imagine.

    I touched every motherfokking component of it, touched it with water, dust,
    poop, screws, screw drivers, fluffy stuff, dust, fingers.

    And it's still working after 12 years or so.

    So nope...

    ESD theory straight up ass ;)

    (static electricity bullshit)

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 18, 2011
    #34
  15. Hmmm...

    I just noticed something that I probably have not noticed before.

    One of the power extension boxes has no ground pins !

    The receiver was probably connected to it, the PC was not, the monitor was
    not, they were both on a different power extension box.

    This probably allowed the PC and the Receiver to have different voltage
    potentials.

    Anyway... I am now in the process of replacing the two power extension boxes
    with just one extension box which I got from the fridge.

    Good thing I noticed it because the fridge ofcourse must be grounded !

    So I am gonna use the spare power extension box with ground for fridge...
    and I will use the non-grounded power extension box for non-grounded
    equipment.


    This includes:

    cable modem, tv and lamp.


    The cable modem is not grounded so it has little use plugging it into the
    same power box as the PC...

    So in a way this changing of power extensions is pretty useless, the
    previous situation was probably better.

    However when I need to plug in my printer I need to use a 4th slot... but I
    can probably unplug receiver for that.

    I don't feel completely safe with the power box from the fridge... it's big
    but it's max power wattage is unknown...

    Also it's pretty dusty near my PC and the dust builds up in the holes which
    could short circuit or cause fire... leaving those holes un-exposed is also
    a risk for screws falling into it and then me being stupid enough to try and
    get them out while it's all on... nope that not gonna happen lol.. cause I
    am not gonna do that ever... it could also short circuit everything.

    So I think I already correct the situation when I swap receiver to pc power
    box...

    So one it died the situation was bad, after that I corrected it, now I was
    thinking about correcting it more... but that would be worse...

    So anyway... interesting to notice one power box misses grounding and cable
    modem is missing grounding.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 26, 2011
    #35
  16. This is a situation where a pc speaker would have come in handy.

    Unfortunately the antec 1200 case does not have a pc speaker.

    This is a pretty big negative for trouble shooting ;)

    I am not ready to start my re-build.

    Let's see what happens...

    I am going to record it with my camera and then maybe place it on youtube.

    Bye,
    Skybuck.
     
    Skybuck Flying, May 26, 2011
    #36
  17. Skybuck Flying

    FatBytestard Guest

    You are more than just a little stupid if you do not know how to place
    a speaker in your PC case.
     
    FatBytestard, May 26, 2011
    #37
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