Snow Leopard: The Install - YOU - ARE -THERE!

Discussion in 'Apple' started by John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Dateline: NJ 11:41 AM ET

    The doorbell rings, the cats scatter like cockroaches when the lights
    come on, and the package is signed for.

    Moments later I'm down in the computer lab and the packaging is ripped
    open like a piñata being struck by Barry Bonds.

    At 11:46:02 AM ET, the Installer app is launched. "Time Remaining:
    About 45 minutes"

    WTF? Didn't Pogue say it was a 15-minute install?

    OMG! Now it's saying TR is 58 minutes!! Then several minutes go by and
    it's advising the TR is 53 minutes.

    Lots of DVD drive noises and this aluminum iMac is getting jiggy with
    it. Now 43 minutes.....and then...and then....

    All of a sudden the progress screen disappears and all I see is the
    desktop pic. Yikes!

    It's rebooting itself now! Slowly, a new splash screen appears and a
    new progress bar gives the TR as 43 minutes and then seconds later, 33
    minutes. Lots of disk acitivity and the progress bar is about 1/3 the
    way through nut still reading a TR of 33 minutes.

    Great Scott! Now 31 minutes and the cat behind me has just upchucked
    about a 1/2 cup of kibbles! Poor little bugger, he's keening as
    there's evidently still more to come.

    The install is still chugging along. My watch reads 12:04 PM so we've
    been at for ~20 minutes and counting.

    I'm on my old G5 providing the play-by-play, and I see the TR is now 30
    minutes. What kind of timer do they use on these things? It's like
    watching paint dry, but the progress bar teases me like a hooker in
    Amsterdam's redlight district. I want to look away, but I can't! I'm
    transfixed by the pulsations.

    Now a jump to a TR of 21 minutes! And the progress bar is past the
    halfway mark!!11!!11.

    Seconds later we're at 19 minutes and holding....holding....18

    Wait, I have to tweet this...

    OK, we're back and the TR is 15 minutes. Now "About 14 minutes" Does
    the CDN version read "Aboot 14 minutes"?

    13 minutes! I may wet myself. Time on the watch reads 12:12 PM.
    We're at the ~26 minute mark now. Oh, the humanity.

    12 minutes and the progress bar moves like molassses. Why so serious,
    Snow Leopard?

    Now 10 minutes! I hope this $29 investment....wait! Black screen at
    the TR 10 minute mark! I hear some soft disk noises but the screen
    remains black. Glossy black, with fingerprints -- I've gotta clean
    those if this install ever finishes.

    Oh, I move the mouse and the screen comes back! 6 minutes left! Now

    Yes, 4 minutos until it's sandbox time for one happy iMac! It's 12:19
    PM so we've been waiting patiently for this finish.

    2 minutes and about a 1 cm of space left for the progress bar to
    travel. Damn, this is either really slow or my sense of time has gone
    the way of the Edsel.

    "About a minute"


    Steve -- eat!!

    OK, I await the grand reveal!

    12:22:39 And I'm still waiting!

    "Less than a minute"


    Less than a minute my a$$! What a tease! The screen dims, I nudge
    the mouse and it brightens.

    These last few minutes have been unadulterated hell! No room left on
    the progress bar! Now what?

    More waiting, that's what!

    Beeeyotch! I hate you, Snow Leopard installer. Hate! HATE! HATE!!!!!

    OK, "The Installation is complete" Must restart.

    TIME 12:27:09 PM ET.

    Rebooting and I'll see you in SL.

    John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009
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  2. Faster, yes, but I cannot figure out how to get my networked
    LaserWriter 16/600PS printer to work with this cat.

    I have the IP address but with AppleTalk gone in this iteration of OS
    X, I'm currently unable to print, and I print no less than 2 reams per

    Major bummer.

    John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009
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  3. The disadvantage of living in the western part of the country: I'm still
    waiting for that doorbell to ring. (BTW, my cats will congregate by the
    door to see who or what is there.)

    Thanks for the blow-by-blow.
    Michelle Steiner, Aug 28, 2009
  4. John Steinberg

    Tom Stiller Guest

    No AppleTalk protocol in Snow Leopard.
    Tom Stiller, Aug 28, 2009
  5. I do have one, but I don't think that's going to be the answer as I my
    printer already has the ethernet upgrade card.

    Unless I'm not following you, which is possible, and maybe even likely.
    In any event, if you would flesh this out a little further I'd be happy
    to try it out.

    In other
    After a LONG convo with multiple folks at Apple, including a product
    specialist we/they have concluded that this printer will not work with
    Snow Leopard directly.

    But Apple did offer something for my trouble, which I then parlayed
    into something else.

    More about that later.
    John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009
  6. I'm in the East and still waiting.

    How is the update being delivered? Is it by US Mail or a delivery

    What does the package look like? I see that the postman delivered two
    bulky packages to a neighbor, too big for just a CD.

    Fred McKenzie, Aug 28, 2009
  7. FedEx overnight; signature required.

    I'm still waiting; it's 12:40 PM. The FedEx tracking page says that it has
    been on the delivery truck since 7:55 this morning, and will be delivered
    no later than 4:30 PM. We'll see...
    Michelle Steiner, Aug 28, 2009
  8. Talk about keeping shivering with antici...
    Michelle Steiner, Aug 28, 2009
  9. Talk about keeping shivering with antici...[/QUOTE]

    Michelle Steiner, Aug 28, 2009
  10. Craft box via FedEx standard overnight. Box is roughly 10" x 3" x 7".

    If you bought from Apple, your shipping acknowledgement has a link for
    John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009
  11. Is keepin' you waitin'.
    John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009
  12. John-

    Thanks for the info. I checked the link and found that it was shipped
    yesterday "Standard Shipping" by US Postal Service, for delivery Sep 1.

    I suppose there was an overnight option that I either missed, or thought
    my $10 was paying for it already!

    Fred McKenzie, Aug 28, 2009
  13. John Steinberg

    JF Mezei Guest

    I ordered 2 CDs one for my Laptop , ordered in July. "Not yet Shipped".
    (FullFIL-FRA). It does say "Ships by August 28th".

    Second one was ordered August 25, Shipped August 27th. There is a
    tracking number, but Purolator is only aware that a waybill was
    generated. It was not "shipped". (Probably standing on load loading dock

    I find it interesting that the first order (the $10 one for a computer
    purchased after start of june) shows no activity at all.

    (I am in Canada).
    JF Mezei, Aug 28, 2009
  14. And here's the much anticipated update on this situation:

    The folks at Apple seemed genuinely (as in sincerely) distressed by the
    loss of my 16/600 PS printer functionality under SL, so they gifted me
    an iPod Shuffle for my trouble.

    I sort of said thanks, but how about a new nano instead?

    To which my "product specialist" said "Sure, why not?" Then they
    offered to engrave it -- gratis -- and I said "Sure, why not?"

    Apple just now called to confirm the engraving.

    Minus one printer, plus one iPod.

    Go Me.
    John Steinberg, Aug 28, 2009
  15. mine was ordered tuesday and will be shipped today. So I should get it

    -- that will give me the weekend to play with win 7 enterprise. /ducks
    James Sidbury, Aug 29, 2009
  16. John Steinberg

    Davoud Guest

    OK, now time to pass that old printer around. Send it to me. After my
    iPod is set I'll pass it on to the next person and so on. Apple will
    never catch on--unless they compare dates and locations and begin to
    track your printer on Google Earth.

    Hey, John, e-mail me, please. I have lost your e-mail address.

    Davoud, Aug 29, 2009
  17. John Steinberg

    David Empson Guest

    No, they don't. You are mixing up the cabling system and its
    corresponding lower layer protocols (which are officially called
    "LocalTalk") and the protocol stack ("AppleTalk").

    LocalTalk operates over a serial cabling system (using HDLC framing at
    230400 bps). The third party PhoneNet or an equivalent cabling system
    can be used as a replacement, but it uses the same medium access
    protocol (LocalTalk Link Access Protocol) and same framing system as
    genuine LocalTalk cabling and connectors from Apple, and uses the
    AppleTalk protocol stack.

    The AppleTalk protocol stack (including the network layer "Datagram
    Delivery Protocol" and everything above it) works over several physical
    cabling systems, including LocalTalk (or equivalent), EtherTalk
    (AppleTalk over Ethernet) and TokenTalk (AppleTalk over Token Ring).

    An AsanteTalk is simply a bridge between Ethernet (Ethertalk) and
    LocalTalk. It transfers AppleTalk protocol packets between those two
    physical cabling systems.

    Snow Leopard no longer supports AppleTalk AT ALL. This means you cannot
    transfer AppleTalk packets over Ethernet (or Airport), and the Mac won't
    be able to talk to an old "AppleTalk" (LocalTalk) printer via an

    The only way you can keep using an old "AppleTalk (LocalTalk) only"
    printer with Snow Leopard is to use something as a print server which
    supports AppleTalk to talk to the printer, and a different protocol to
    talk to the computer.
    David Empson, Aug 29, 2009
  18. Wow!
    Michelle Steiner, Aug 29, 2009
  19. John Steinberg

    JF Mezei Guest

    It's just taking a while for this news of this terrible loss to sink in.
    It was so sudden. Appetalk seemed like a healthy, reliable, sure thing,
    and BAM !, all of sudden, it is gone. :)

    Out of curiosity, for file sharing between OS-X and Mac Os (9.x for
    instance), for Apple-share over IP still continue to work or did that
    also rely on Appletalk at some level ?
    JF Mezei, Aug 29, 2009
  20. John Steinberg

    David Empson Guest

    The relevant protocols for file sharing between Mac OS 9 (or earlier)
    and Mac OS X are:

    1. Apple Filing Protocol (AFP). This is the Mac-native protocol used to
    actually copy files between a client and server. Depending on the
    version of Mac OS or Mac OS X, it can run over either AppleTalk or
    TCP/IP (in some cases depending on whether you are the client or

    2. Name Binding Protocol (NBP). This is AppleTalk's service discovery
    protocol, used by Chooser (or equivalent mechanisms on Mac OS X) to
    detect available servers by name. NBP doesn't run over TCP/IP, but there
    are other protocols like Bonjour which take its place.

    A quick summary of compatibility with recent versions is:

    8.6.1 and earlier (back to 7.6, I think) can do AFP over TCP/IP only as
    a client, not a server (unless you install third party software).
    AppleTalk can be used for both client and server.

    9.x can do AFP over TCP/IP or AppleTalk as a client and server. AFP over
    TCP/IP as a server requires enabling this feature via a checkbox in File

    10.4 can do AFP over TCP/IP or AppleTalk as a client and server, so it
    can connect either way with Mac OS 9 and with 8.6 and earlier.

    10.5 can only do AFP over TCP/IP, not AppleTalk. It still supports NBP
    for AppleTalk but my experience is that this didn't work reliably in
    conjunction with Mac OS 9, so I had to enter IP addresses manually to
    connect between Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X 10.5. All of this means that 10.5
    can connect either way with Mac OS 9 (with some minor hassle), but 8.6
    or earlier only works as a client.

    10.6 also drops NBP, so 10.6 cannot be seen by Chooser on Mac OS 9 or
    earlier, and 10.6 won't show any Mac OS 9 servers in Finder. You can
    still connect from Mac OS 9 or earlier to 10.6, or from 10.6 to 9 (but
    not 8.6 or earlier), in all cases requiring manual entry of the IP

    At least, I assume so, depending on whether there have been any other
    protocol changes that have broken AFP compatibility.
    David Empson, Aug 29, 2009
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