1. This forum section is a read-only archive which contains old newsgroup posts. If you wish to post a query, please do so in one of our main forum sections (here). This way you will get a faster, better response from the members on Motherboard Point.

So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by pigdos, Dec 23, 2005.

  1. pigdos

    pigdos Guest

    This is what I read over on Rage3d. That sucks. Really sucks.
     
    pigdos, Dec 23, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertisements

  2. I don't understand your point. First, Nvidia makes _GPUs_ (ICs), not
    videocards. Second, they stopped production of GPUs with native AGP
    interface, but board makers still can make AGP cards by using the
    AGP-PCIe brigde chip. Third, AGP is dead. The current crop of AGP cards
    is still fast enough for the latest AGP systems, and next generation
    cards also want a faster system that will have PCIe.

    So what?

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Dec 23, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertisements

  3. pigdos

    Dean Jarratt Guest

    You make some excellent points Benjamin, however I'm still a little
    confused as to why AGP has been ditched so quickly. GPU's still can't
    consume the AGP 8x bandwidth.

    It all seems a bit pushy by the developers to move everyone for monetary
    purposes. It almost seems like hardware developers are thinking that AGP
    was too good to begin with and has held back money making opportunities.
     
    Dean Jarratt, Dec 23, 2005
    #3
  4. Yeah, they force us to buy new hardware.
    The only advantage of PCIe is IMHO the possibility of SLI.
    I am using my 6800gt on a crappy 4xAGP board...the difference to 8xAGP is
    <5%.

    Cu, Michael
     
    Michael Tipotsch, Dec 23, 2005
    #4
  5. pigdos

    tod Guest

    Currently 70% of the graphics card sold are AGP.
    So AGP is still a money maker for NVIDIA and ATI.
     
    tod, Dec 23, 2005
    #5
  6. Thats BS. Over 80% of sales ATI and Nvidia make comes from system
    builders, and these are using PCIe only for over a year now.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Dec 23, 2005
    #6
  7. No, AGP 4x would be still fast enough...
    You ignore that unlike AGP PCIe is not only for gfx cards. The problem
    with AGP PCs is not the gfx interface (AGP) but the slow shared bus
    (PCI) which is needed for expension boards. PCI _is_ a limiting factor
    already, and the PCI enhancements (PCI64, PCI-X) have a higher bandwidth
    but still suffer from the same problem (shared bus). So there was a need
    for something really new, even when most home users didn't reach the limits.

    Unlike AGP (which basically is just a faster PCI interface) and PCI
    which both are parallel busses PCIe is a serial point-to-point
    connection with accumulated bandwidth (which means you can combine
    several lanes to increase bandwidth). That means PCIe devices don't have
    to share bandwidth with other devices. Of course this also has
    advantages to gfx cards while AGP is a single card system only which
    also has several limitations and bottlenecks.

    So it's clear that at some point simply a cut was necessary because the
    limitations through PCI weren't getting better over time...

    And honestly, I see no problem. Of course the majority of old systems
    are AGP but what do you expect? It's not a PCIe specific problem that
    doing an upgrade often comes with the need for upgrading other
    components. Want examples? CPU too slow -> new CPU has new socket or
    different FSB -> new mobo that supports CPU. Oops, the new mobo also
    wants new RAM because the old RAM is too slow or also from a different
    type (i.e. SDRAM). So that means buying new RAM, too. And after You're
    done with that you probably find that the HD also is slow and that it's
    better if the new disk you gonna buy doesn't has parallel ATA but SATA
    because your new mobo has two or four ports waiting for a fast drive.
    And so on...

    I know that lots of people are upset because AGP is dead. But then, the
    AGP cards that are still available (ATI X800 class or GF6800 series) are
    more than fast enough even for the fastest AGP systems. Cards like the
    7800GTX or ATI X1800 also want a system that has a fast CPU and also a
    fast bus system (i.e. memory interface), otherwise most of the potential
    of these cards is just wasted as is the money that has been spent for
    them. And for people that have an older computer from i.e. the Athlon XP
    generation or a socket 478 P4 every upgrade would also mean new mobo
    which should be PCIe...

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Dec 23, 2005
    #7
  8. pigdos

    deimos Guest

    That's exactly the point, no AGP system ever practically used all the
    available bandwidth. Even 8X. There were fundamental obstacles to
    overcome in the AGP architecture that were bottlenecks to performance.
    Plus, the entire system performance suffered from legacy interfaces like
    PCI. PCIE provides far more total system bandwidth and the ability to
    actually carry it, not just over the graphics bus.

    Advances like the NForce architecture and the last KT400's were about
    the best you would ever get in AGP. It seems very silly to put
    something like a Athlon 64 X2 4200 in a system where both memory and
    graphics performance would be limited by the system itself. There was
    very little return for increasing processor and FSB speeds on AGP systems.
     
    deimos, Dec 23, 2005
    #8
  9. pigdos

    J. Clarke Guest

    And your source for that information is?
     
    J. Clarke, Dec 23, 2005
    #9
  10. pigdos

    Bill Guest

    Did that hurt when you pulled it out?
    <snip>

    You don't know much about business do you?

    Bill
     
    Bill, Dec 23, 2005
    #10
  11. pigdos

    pigdos Guest

    I had thought that Nvidia had ceased production of all 6800 GPU's -- except
    for the 6800GS. The best nvidia GPU available for AGP was the 6800ultra
    right?
     
    pigdos, Dec 23, 2005
    #11
  12. pigdos

    NightSky 421 Guest


    My concern at this point is if most owners of AGP-based systems will have a
    fast enough CPU in their system to feed some of the uber video cards out
    there. My main computer (built in 2003) has AGP, but has a P4 2.8GHz
    Northwood C processor and it's already been proven that you cannot even see
    the full potential of a card like the ATI X800XL with such a CPU, to say
    nothing of a card like the GeForce 7800GT/GTX.
     
    NightSky 421, Dec 23, 2005
    #12
  13. pigdos

    Glen Guest

    If the title of this thread is true, I'd advise buying eBay stock.

    Heavily.

    Absolutely outrageous. As if I'm about to trash a $2,000
    P4 3.8MHz computer just to upgrade a fucking video card.
    It's sad to see Nvidia trying to shove a new, unnecessary
    standard down the market's throat. ATI is trying the same
    thing and their bottom line has been in the shitter ever since.
     
    Glen, Dec 23, 2005
    #13
  14. pigdos

    Gus Guest

    I can't really afford to buy any new hardware right now.

    Gus
     
    Gus, Dec 23, 2005
    #14
  15. pigdos

    First of One Guest

    This is the same self-centered crap that's been thrown around here for
    months. "If I'm using AGP and ma aunt Betsy-Mae's using AGP, I figured
    everyone must be using AGP." Asus alone ships over 1 million PCIe
    motherboards *per month*. Wonder where they all went...

    BTW, before 3dfx died, its Voodoo5 cards were the best-selling retail cards
    ever made. Even such "leadership" couldn't help when the entire retail
    segment accounts for about 10% of the market.
     
    First of One, Dec 24, 2005
    #15
  16. pigdos

    First of One Guest

    Hard to say, especially since I'll have to take money out of oil stocks...
    nVidia started the PCIe-only trend with the 7800GT several months before ATi
    did. Half of nVidia's marketing efforts (SLi) fundamentally hinges on PCIe.

    AMD users have it a bit easier. All they need to do is change the
    motherboard (for now), not that expensive compared to the $400-$500 spent on
    a high-end video card.
     
    First of One, Dec 24, 2005
    #16
  17. pigdos

    oldwolf Guest

    AMD users have it a bit easier. All they need to do is change the
    motherboard (for now), not that expensive compared to the $400-$500 spent on
    a high-end video card.

    Why do you say that?? My amd 3200 wont fit in a s939 board, and Im not
    throwing away 2gig of ram just to upgrade the vid card.
    I can play fear, and cod2, and others, quite nicely at the moment, with a
    6600gt. got no problems with fps, or stuttering, or any thing else.
    Sure I would like to go up to a supercard, but I aint ditching everything.
    (for a start the missus would kill me. ;-) )



    oldwolf
     
    oldwolf, Dec 24, 2005
    #17
  18. pigdos

    First of One Guest

    I was referring to Athlon64 owners. A socket-A CPU is of course a different
    animal. Your RAM can carry over, though.
     
    First of One, Dec 24, 2005
    #18
  19. Why should you trash the whole computer? Simply get a new mainboard
    instead...

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Dec 24, 2005
    #19
  20. You have an Athlon XP?
    Well, a 6800GT/Ultra AGP is probably the maximum that is useful with an
    Athlon XP that has several performance bottlenecks. A 7800GTX would be
    wasted...

    That's a good example for what I said: it's not really a problem that
    new cards are PCIe. For your system an ATI X800 or Nvidia Geforce
    6800GT/Ultra would be more than enough. Everything higher would require
    a faster computer to be useful...

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Dec 24, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.