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Solid state drives?

Discussion in 'IBM Thinkpad' started by MD34, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. MD34

    MD34 Guest

    My son just added a 64Gb solid state drive to use as his primary/boot partition
    and it really is fast. Boots W7 Ultimate in 24 seconds.

    Are there SS drives for laptops? I have a decent running T22 and wondered how
    well a SS drive would work(if there are any). Right now it has a measely 20Gb so
    I need something bigger.
     
    MD34, Apr 5, 2011
    #1
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  2. MD34

    News Guest


    I have two X6* (x61, x61s) with Kingston 96Gb, 128Gb 2.5" SSDs on which
    boot to WXP, W7U much faster than with prior 7K100 drives with improved
    battery life.
     
    News, Apr 5, 2011
    #2
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  3. MD34

    MayBell Guest

    Good idea, never thought about battery life.
     
    MayBell, Apr 5, 2011
    #3
  4. Newegg sells them. One caveat, though: You can read from an SSD as many
    times as you want, but there is a finite number of writes that you can
    perform before the drive packs up. True for mechanical drives, too, but a
    lot fewer for SSDs, especially the MLC type. The SLC type gives you more
    writes, from what I gather.
     
    Tom Rutherford, Apr 5, 2011
    #4
  5. MD34

    MayBell Guest


    One of the Kingston drive ads says:
    Life expectancy:
    1 million hours mean time before failure, 64GB/128GB
    500,000 hours mean time before failure; 30GB

    Wonder how true that is.

    I keep seeing SATA mentioned in the specs and get confused. Are the T22 drives
    SATA or IDE? having a hard time finding one.

    I don't need or want a new laptop but a faster-larger drive would be nice.
     
    MayBell, Apr 6, 2011
    #5
  6. AFAIK, older laptops use PATA or IDE (same thing?), not SATA. AFAIK,
    there are no PATA/IDE solid state drives available, at least not for laptops.
     
    Marc Auslander, Apr 6, 2011
    #6
  7. I've been reading/hearing that the relevant specification would be the
    number of writes before failure. MTBF is irrelevant if the drive just sits
    there not doing anything. MTBF applies more if there are spinning platters
    with heads flying over them.
    I'd want to pin Kingston down on its relevance, myself.
    I don't know about the T-series, but isn't the T22 a machine from the late
    '90s, early aughts? My R51 has a mfg. date of late 2005, and it's IDE, so
    I'd assume that the T22 would be, also. Yes, the drives you see advertised
    are primarily SATA these days, but Newegg, last time I checked, still had
    some ATA-6 SSDs in stock, and they were in the 2.5" form factor. Not sure
    if they are the same height as the drive in my R51, but if I could ignore
    the terrible bang-to-buck ratio, I'd grab one or two of the 64-giggers. One
    for the primary and one or two for backup would be sweet.
    With the 5+ year old technology I'm using, I feel like I'm being left in the
    dust. Even my desktop is starting to "bind" on me, and it's more up to date
    than my laptop. At least, the desktop is a 64-bit machine, even though it
    only has a single-core processor. The laptop is an old Intel Pentium-M
    1.7GHz machine. Poverty sucks.
     
    Tom Rutherford, Apr 6, 2011
    #7
  8. MD34

    Mike Y Guest

    What are you talking about? SS Drives STARTED with PATA/IDE before they
    were even ThumbDrives

    Granted, they were expensive, so not very popular but they are out there.
    And are out there now, but size can be an issue. I have a couple of 8Gig
    drives in my drawer that were '2-piece'. Actually, they are CF with a tiny
    slipon adapter to be PATA/IDE or SATA
     
    Mike Y, Apr 10, 2011
    #8
  9. MD34

    Mike Y Guest

    True, but the 'write life' of flash has been going up for years and is
    reasonable now. Coupled with the advances in 'wear leveling' techniques,
    they are a very good tradeoff.

    Besides, doesn't W7 (and maybe even XP) have a way to trade-off cacheing for
    write cycles to even further extend SSD life?
     
    Mike Y, Apr 10, 2011
    #9
  10. I think we are talking about plausible SS drive replacements for old
    laptops that have PATA/IDE internal drives. I have such a beast, a
    Thinkpad T40. For me, the minimum plausible size would be 64Gig, but
    80 or more would be better. It was those replacements that I can't
    find at all, let alone at a sensible price.

    I'd be happy to be corrected by a web link or two showing available product.
     
    Marc Auslander, Apr 11, 2011
    #10
  11. That is interesting. If they weren't so blinkin' expensive, I'd think about
    putting a 64GB or larger SSD in my R51 series. I'd love to replace the
    800GB in my desktop (Linux is running on the 640GB drive, and it runs like a
    scared rabbit on meth), but I just can't see paying that much. A 64GB boot
    drive would be nice. Maybe later, I'll do something like that, and put in a
    card to give me more SATA ports.
    I'm not sure. By the time I get around to thinking seriously about SSD
    storage, though, I will probably be done with Windows, and will be all
    Linux, if I haven't gone nutz and bought a Mac. :)
     
    Tom Rutherford, Apr 11, 2011
    #11
  12. Not a lot of choices that are still in stock, but here you go:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...n=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=pata

    Sorry if the link breaks for you, but you should be able to C&P into your
    browser if so.
     
    Tom Rutherford, Apr 11, 2011
    #12
  13. MD34

    Mike Y Guest

    A year and a half ago I bought the girl I was daing a netbook for Christmas
    and it had a SSD as the boot drive. And I seem to recall something in there
    about the caching setup, but I don't know it if was generic XP or an OEM
    enhancement from HP.

    By the way, I have one of the original Intel 30Meg SSDs in my drawer. IDE
    interface. Looks like a plate of metal with flash chips all over it...
    Prototypes are neat. I also have an Integral PCMCIA HD that's glass. Yep,
    you can see it spin and the head arm move...

    On the other hand I have (or had) a SyQuest removable drive for PCMCIA.
    Yep, the whole PCMCIA card was removable, but the drive itself would eject
    little media cartridges. 10Meg if I recall. Kind of neat. But the whole
    drive price structure fell so fast who wanted the cartridges.

    Mike
     
    Mike Y, Apr 12, 2011
    #13
  14. I'll bet it was an OEM thing. OTOH, might've been something like the first
    XT-compatible box I had. The motherboard had hardware on it to use the
    upper 384K of the 1M of installed memory as hard drive cache. It could be
    configured for caching reads only, writes only, or reads and writes, or no
    cache at all. Since the cache interfered with a floppy drive controller I
    was using at the time, I used a proprietary driver to turn that upper 384K
    into a little RAMdisk. I put my PKZIP and UNZIP in there, a text editor,
    and Vern Buerg's LIST.COM. Worked out nice, for the time.
    That's cool. :) First time I bought a new WD hard drive, I saw the
    picture of the drive with its platters and actuator arm hangin' out, and
    when I opened the bag, it was all sealed up. I was kind of disappointed,
    but then, since I don't live in a clean environment, I knew I didn't have to
    worry about one of the heads hitting a speck of dust at 200mph and getting
    ripped off the arm.
    Yeah, the LS-120 floppies didn't last long, either. Kind of disappointed
    me, because I wanted to try them. By the time I could afford the drive and
    media, though, I couldn't find them.
     
    Tom Rutherford, Apr 13, 2011
    #14
  15. MD34

    Mike Y Guest

    That was actually a spec thing, not necessarily an OEM thing.

    Tandy for example, had 768K on their T2000, and the spec from Microsoft was
    to have a full 1Meg, less video... And you could hack the T2K to 896K.
    This caused a lot of software to break, so the NORMAL way to make the T2K
    compatible (to some extent, anyway) was to declare a 'vdisk' to make the T2K
    appear as if it were a 640K machine. You could do the same or similar trick
    with the T1000 as well, but not for the same reason.

    Some 'XT' motherboards in the 80's actually supported RAM in the sockets.
    Later there was a 'driver' you could load. I wrote the one from SystemSoft
    call 'umbpro.sys' that grabbed any memory up above 640K and put it in the
    'memory arena'. This essentially let the upper memory (UMBPRO stood for
    Upper Memory Provider, and would work on XT and AT machines and create the
    upper memory arena space) be used by the system to load programs high and
    you could run with 629K of free memory even after loading stuff like HiMem
    and some drivers. Remember Loadhigh.sys that no one could figure out?
    Well, it needed EMM386. But you didn't need AT machines or a 286 if you had
    UMBPRO. In fact, I used it to put all the PCMCIA drivers up out of
    range. And on AT machines, you didn't even need to run a ramdisk, you could
    use the 'loadhigh' command to load resident drivers

    Geesh, I hope I remember that right! It was YEARS ago!
     
    Mike Y, Apr 14, 2011
    #15
  16. This wasn't a Tandy board, but the guy I bought the box from had a friend, a
    real IBM employee, who referred to that motherboard as a "Tandy-ized"
    motherboard. It had a '286 running at 7.2MHz, shoehorned into an XT
    architecture, with 8 ISA slots, all clocked at 4.77MHz, and one of them
    being buffered. The extra memory and the cache hardware made it a neat
    board to work with. And, unlike some of the Tandy machines, the BIOS was
    very standard, IRQs were where they were supposed to be, etc. And, you
    could use off-the-shelf floppy drives, video cards, etc. It was a WaveMate
    Bullet-286 board.
    I don't think I used memory management, other than that proprietary driver
    to create the RAMdisk, until I got into the '386 and '486 realm. And, yes,
    LoadHigh was a strange beast.
    I didn't get into the "Big Blue Universe" until 1990, so all of the stuff I
    started out with was pretty much obsolete by then. It was still fun,
    though. I could finally quit feeling inferior, because I didn't have that
    Commodore 8-bit junk anymore. :)
     
    Tom Rutherford, Apr 14, 2011
    #16
  17. I'd love to see photos of the intel SSD and IP drive.

    I really liked those PCMCIA type 3 hard disks. I still have a type 2
    PCMCIA drive from Toshiba, I think it was 5GB. It was incredible at the
    time it came out, it seems the basic form factor less the connectors and a
    new interface is the basis for the drives in ipods.
     
    Cydrome Leader, Apr 20, 2011
    #17
  18. a still sealed LS-120 floppy popped up at work, I never found a drive for
    it though. It seems they lasted even less than 3.5" magneto optical drives
    or minidisc drives.
     
    Cydrome Leader, Apr 20, 2011
    #18
  19. MD34

    Mike S. Guest

    Not as short as my box of Sony HiFD disks.
     
    Mike S., Apr 20, 2011
    #19
  20. MD34

    Mike Y Guest

    The Intel drive is down in the desk drawer, and I could find it fairly
    quickly. The 'glass' drive I'd have to look for.

    Hmm, can I post a binary file here?
     
    Mike Y, Apr 21, 2011
    #20
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