Sorry to repost:SLUGGISH Inspriron 8100 pad/stick not working

Discussion in 'Dell' started by news.rcn.com, Feb 12, 2006.

  1. Always interesting how an obvious troll calls someone else a troll.
    With your Google track record, that's you in spades, Rodbot.
    You practically live in Usenet. Some doubt you ever sleep.
    What's the point of offering the options that it does if that were true?
    So obviously it isn't useless. And DFT *will* tell you if
    the drive has failed none the less IF such is the case.
    Basically drives do not throw data away without the user knowing it.
    They would be corrupting the user's data if they did.
    So drives either copy correct data obtained after retries to spares
    or they spare a bad sector after a write to that bad sector since
    obviously the data in that bad sector is now expendable.
    That's not the goal. The goal is to have a good sector repla-
    ce the bad without data loss. The mechanism behind that is
    of no importance other than for S.M.A.R.T. or error logs.
    Have DFT write over the bad sectors with pat-
    tern data so they are either corrected or spared.

    [big snip]
    Nonsense.
    There is the S.M.A.R.T. status that says fail or pass that any utility can
    use, even Spinrite. Whether that's worth anything is another matter.
    Yah, you can say that.

    There is no such marking 'as bad and unusable'.

    Working as intended.

    Gosh, DFT actually works? Who would have thought that. It's a miracle.
    Nonsense.
    It means that it took care of the unrecoverable read error bad sectors,
    either by correcting bad ECC in the 'bad' sector by writing the new
    pattern data or forcing the drive to assign a spare sector in it's place
    if the write-check mechanism decides that the data is still bad after that.
    [big snip of badly quoted text]
     
    Folkert Rienstra, Feb 25, 2006
    #21
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  2. Ahh, so that's who you are.
    Nope, the troll is the one that rants without ever checking what he rants about.
    And obviously never learned anything there.
    Maybe you are the Rod Speed of the Dell newsgroup and the
    people have given up on correcting you? Just too much work, eh.
    And see what that got them. Lot's of misinformation that gets unrebutted just
    to keap the peace. That's one reason how old wife tales come to live so long.
    Three people -who generally hate me- in favor of me. Zero for you. There
    must be something you are missing. But that's not really surprizing, now is it.
    Yup, you are a troll. That's to be expected. It's in the nature of the beast.
    But you don't. And it will happen again. As it happened before.
    Looking back in google I see that you have the above message canned.
    Apparently it happens a lot more to you than you want us to believe.
    As I said, you are a troll, nomatter how often you deny it.
    How convenient that the proof that you were wrong got snipped with it.
     
    Folkert Rienstra, Feb 25, 2006
    #22
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  3. news.rcn.com

    Odie Ferrous Guest


    Aw - we don't hate you, Folkie.

    I mean, without people like you, we wouldn't really have a "benchmark"
    to see what nice people *we* are!

    You are really appreciated - it makes us "normal" people realise just
    how lucky we are...


    Odie
     
    Odie Ferrous, Feb 25, 2006
    #23
  4. news.rcn.com

    Arno Wagner Guest

    Well, that is not entirely correct. The sparing will also kick in
    when a marginal sector is read (i.e. one where the drive has to
    resort to the ECC coding to recover the secor and detects more than
    a specific number of errors in the reading or when it has to do
    reading retries in addition). However it is correct that DFT just
    reads or writes a drive as any other application could do and can
    start a SMART self-test as any other SMART utility can do.

    The bad sector recovery DFT offfers is just a regular overwrite
    of the drive. I have done this manually in Linux by zeroing
    the drive, with exactly the same effect.
    I think it was quite good in the old (MFM) days. I think that today
    its assumptions about the signal modulation make it far less usable
    or remove its edge completely.

    Arno
     
    Arno Wagner, Feb 25, 2006
    #24
  5. news.rcn.com

    news.rcn.com Guest

    that was exactly my point and with respect to all, it does seem logical?
    (not sure how I could have done this with os files if sfc wouldnt assist)
    Might I ask what this means and how I can avoid it if it is happening so
    much (i.e.all the time)
    may be able to borrow one from someone; never did work out how to use kazaa
    or if anything downloaded from it can be rendered safe. can i just copy the
    contents of the i386 directory to cd and run setup from there on this drive
    to achieve this in-place reinstall? (assuming none of the files in it are
    corrupted ones!!)
    I only have 128 meg of ram on a 1.2 GHz computer so I should install some
    more memory when all these problems are worked out; I cant help but feel
    that I am getting closer to this all the time? But I have never thought
    that the pause problem was caused by any lack of memory with nothing
    whatsoever running on the computer (besides a suspicious-looking program
    called InfoRetriever which resides in my systray???)
     
    news.rcn.com, Feb 25, 2006
    #25
  6. news.rcn.com

    news.rcn.com Guest

    Have DFT write over the bad sectors with pat-
    I thought that the idea was that if a sector is bad, it needs marking as bad
    so that it isnt used again? What is the point of writing anything over it
    and trying to use it again if it can be read as bad by (for example) DFT
    when there are replacement sectors precisely for this purpose?
    Are you sure about this? If a sector is bad, and is easily replaceable with
    a spare (whether data on it can be recovered or not), why try to use it
    again? Isnt that what Ben was talking about when he recommended buying a
    new drive whenever any sector becomes marked 'bad'?
    Did I miss something here? How can it "add all the potential bads to the
    bad sector list" if "There is no such marking 'as bad and unusable'"
    I suspect that in all the ranting, what we are losing sight of here is what
    appears to be the difference between a utility seeing a sector as being bad
    and a utility seeing data on a sector as being corrupted (I personally
    hadn't realised that any hardware testing utility could read data and know
    it was corrupted. What you presumably call "correcting bad ECC in the 'bad'
    sector" and "Have DFT write over the bad sectors with pattern data so they
    are corrected")
    well that may be the answer to my original question (to which I keep
    alluding); how do I access these stats to see if I have a disastrously
    failing drive or if I merely have a drive with a few bad sectors which have
    been successfully replaced with spare ones Or if there are so many of these
    innocuous looking sectors that the drive is about to fail? I might add the
    irrelvant information that before running DFT, I ran Powermax which told me
    that the drive was about to fail and that it should be replaced immediately.
    Which is of course the reverse of what DFT is NOW doing after carrying out
    the sector replacement offer.
     
    news.rcn.com, Feb 25, 2006
    #26
  7. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    You wouldnt know a troll if one bit you on your lard arse, fuckwit.
    Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
    What I said in different words.
    Wrong, as always.
    Not once you have decided that the data isnt recoverable.
    Wrong again, it determines when DFT should be used.

    Once you have decided that the data in
    the candidate bads is not recoverable.
    What I said in different words.
    Fraid so.
    No it doesnt. Its always just an indication that the drive
    may be about to die. Its never a black and white pass fail.
    And thats obviously what I meant.
    I just did.
    Corse there is, thats what adding the sector to the bad sector list does.

    Bad in the sense that its unusable, stupid.
    We'll see...
    Same thing in different words.
    Like it or lump it, pathetically anal troll.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 25, 2006
    #27
  8. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yes, but they arent necessarily permanently bad.
    He means that with some sectors it is possible to make that
    sector usable again by overwritting it, particularly when the
    unreadable sector was the result of a write failure when the
    sector was written, like say a power failure when writing it.
    He's just doing his usual mindlessly anal hair splitting, trying to
    prove that he knows more about everything than anyone else.

    He has never managed to grasp that hardly anyone is silly
    enough to attempt to be completely rigourous on all the fine
    detail when commenting on the basics to someone like you,
    because that makes the explanation too turgid and hard to read.

    Notice how he never attempts to answer the original
    question, just snipes from the sidelines instead.
    Basically because it can be bad due to something
    as basic as a power failure when the sector was
    being written. Overwriting it may well fix those fine.
    His was a comment on bad AND unusuable, not just bads.

    Just his usual pathetically anal sniping/hair splitting.
    No, thats what he is saying too cryptically, that the
    sector may not be bad in the sense that it needs to
    be in the bad sector list, it may be fine to overwrite
    it if its just bad due to a power failure during the write.
    Yeah, thats a classic example of his mindless posturing,
    using technical terms that may well mean nothing to the reader.
    I prefer the Everest SMART report.
    http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
    Post the results here.
    Yeah, both have their downsides when they proclaim one or
    the other drive status. I prefer to interpret the SMART data
    myself, tho I can see why the manufacturer has decided to
    do it that way in their diags, they need something more
    absolute for the simpler users to run.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 25, 2006
    #28
  9. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yeah, it doesnt apply to your situation.
    It means that a command is sent to the drive and the drive
    doesnt respond and eventually the system decides that the
    drive isnt going to respond and sends out the command again.
    If that is in fact happening, the only way to avoid it is to
    work out why its happening and fix what is causing that.
    Sure, but if you arent getting drive activity during
    the pauses, those pauses arent due to that.
    Thats why I suggested imaging the system and trying
    a completely clean install on a formatted drive, to
    completely separate the hardware from the install etc.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 25, 2006
    #29
  10. Who made you a 'we', Stinkie? Speak for yourself.
    Retrodata
    www.retrodata.co.uk
    Globally Local Data Recovery Experts

    I see you forgot to add your signature again, Stinkie. I amended that for you.
    Afterall, 'we' do like to know who 'we' are dealing with when 'we' send our
    treasured data to you for recovery, right, Stinkie?
     
    Folkert Rienstra, Feb 26, 2006
    #30
  11. Thanks Roddles.

    And if they are replaced they obviously aren't used so why mark 'm
    bad if they are not used and they aren't is the spares list -so they
    won't be used in the future either- so why still mark 'm bad, do I ask.
    Geez, how difficult can this be.
    Exactly.
    And reassigning a sector will make logical block addresses non sequential,
    causing 2 extra head movements when reading otherwise sequential blocks.
    So you replace it with something false and equally technical that you
    manage to understand and therefor think he will understand as well,
    (which obviously he doesn't).
    So *others/lurkers* don't spread your old wife tales.
    If I thought the OP would understand anything I write,
    I would be responding to him.
    A bad sector is detected by ECC error. There is no way for a drive to
    tell whether a sector is physically bad other than by checking the ECC.
    The only way to check whether a sector is actually bad is to check it
    with different data and check whether it is read back without ECC
    errors. If that succeeds than it isn't bad and doesn't need replacing.
    There is no such marking, except for the 'pending' bad sectors.
    Any bad sector that was reassigned to a spare is out of the picture,
    It isn't in the spare list and it isn't in the used list so what bad can it do.
    If it's in any list at all it is only for logging purposes, not to prevent them
    from being re-used again.
    It takes one to know one, eh Rodney.
    It's not in a list of not to be used again sectors.
    It's either reused (not bad) or it is replaced (bad and discarded).

    Like a marked bad sector list *does*, Roddles?

    A hardware testing utility cannot read data and know it was corrupted.
    It knows it is corrupted just because it can *not* read it, that's how.
    Because the drive flags an (ECC) error. The only way to correct an ECC
    error it to write new data to (ie overwrite) the sector and let the drive
    calculate a new ECC that corresponds with that new data.
    Far more interesting is what Powermax thinks of the drive now after the DFT treatment.
     
    Folkert Rienstra, Feb 26, 2006
    #31
  12. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    That complete and utter obscenity of a sentence should be taken out
    the back and beaten to death with the largest waddy you can find.
    It isnt something that is necessarily obvious to someone who
    doesnt realise that a sector isnt necessarily permanently bad.
    A minor consideration.
    Lying again on what is done with bad sectors.
    Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
    Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
    How odd that you never think anyone asking the original question
    could ever understand anything you might say to them too.

    You do occasionally try a bit of mindless posturing like you
    did with your comments to this particular poster, LONG after
    everyone else has been commenting on his original problem.
    Mindless semantics. When a sector is reallocated, that is
    effectively marking the original sector as bad and unusable.
    Irrelevant to whether its clearly flagged as bad and unusuable.
    Irrelevant to whether its clearly flagged as bad and unusuable.
    Any 2 year old could do better than that pathetic effort Fuckert.

    Get one to help you before posting again, if anyone is
    actually stupid enough to let you anywhere near one.
    More mindless puerile semantics.
    Pathetic, really.
    Pathetic, really.
    Anyone with a clue couldnt care less when
    trying to decide if the drive is now usable or not.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 26, 2006
    #32
  13. news.rcn.com

    Beemer Biker Guest

    yep, you called that one right.
    Rod: you got too many negatives in that sentence. I hate to say it, but it
    ain't much better then the one you complained about. Does everybody talk
    like that down there?
    No problem with that one! Hey, you ever get out...like to ride in the
    outback?


    --
    =======================================================================
    Beemer Biker
    http://ResearchRiders.org Ask about my 99'R1100RT
    http://TipsForTheComputingImpaired.com
    =======================================================================
     
    Beemer Biker, Feb 26, 2006
    #33
  14. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    I always call them all right, and dont you forget it.
    Wrong, as always.
    Wrong, as always.
    Nope, no one ever talks like me, anywhere.

    And dont you forget that either.
    You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
    irrelevant. What you might or might not have a problem with in spades.
    Corse I do.
    Nope, my next door neighbour does tho, and
    damned near ripped his leg off doing that one time.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 26, 2006
    #34
  15. news.rcn.com

    Beemer Biker Guest

    yeah right!
    yeah right!
    That is too bad, accidents can happen anytime, anywhere, sorry about your
    neighbour. The company I work for sells antennas and they installed a bunch
    on some of those aussie frigates just recently. I didnt get to go, but a
    buddy of mine did and got a chance to ride in the outback. That story about
    your neighbour reminded me of it. The story is here
    http://tinyurl.com/zcef5 but I quoted the best part below...

    Last year I went to Australia, no sooner than I started my outback ride I
    saw a
    guy having his way with a sheep. I stopped at the next pub for a cold one,
    low and
    behold I saw this one legged guy taking care of his own urges in the corner.

    I asked the bar keep what the heck was going on?

    He replied, "Fair dinkum mate, you couldn't expect a one legged bloke to
    catch a
    sheep, now would you?"


    --
    =======================================================================
    Beemer Biker
    http://ResearchRiders.org Ask about my 99'R1100RT
    http://TipsForTheComputingImpaired.com
    =======================================================================
     
    Beemer Biker, Feb 26, 2006
    #35
  16. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    Much more likely to bite you on a bike tho.

    He did that on a pretty rough road with rocks sticking up
    out of the surface, managed to get his foot behind one.

    I prefer flying myself.
    He must have been in New Zealand instead.
    We dont have those here.
    See above.
     
    Rod Speed, Feb 26, 2006
    #36
  17. news.rcn.com

    Odie Ferrous Guest


    Folkie,


    I hold some of the world's military and nuclear secrets in my hand,
    Folkie. Well, until I destroyed the media that contained them.

    And where is the "Stinkie" from? The name, "Odiferous?" Try spelling
    it "Stinky." It looks better. And that's the correct spelling, en
    plus.

    Thanks for the insertion of my sig - I am rather remiss at times. Too
    much on the go at present.

    And, Folkie - you really need to control this jealousy of yours. Just
    because I'm doing rather well and you're in a mindless, dead-end postion
    simply doesn't justify it.



    Odie
     
    Odie Ferrous, Feb 26, 2006
    #37
  18. If that relieves your tensions, then go ahead. Give it your best shot.
    Still don't get it, don't you Roddles. Logic still totally eludes you.
    Thank you for confirming that there is no real marking of bad sectors other
    than the pending ones.
    It's not, as you have just confirmed.
    It's not, as you have just confirmed.

    [snip]
    It's not, as you have just confirmed.

    [snip]
    Whatever that's supposed to mean.
    But then, that's exactly what it is supposed to mean, isn't it: nothing.
    Just the usual posturing of your own.
     
    Folkert Rienstra, Mar 1, 2006
    #38
  19. news.rcn.com

    Rod Speed Guest

    Some fuckwit pseudokraut claiming to be
    Folkert Rienstra <>
    wrote just the pathetic excuse for a troll
    that any 2 year old could leave for dead.
     
    Rod Speed, Mar 1, 2006
    #39
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