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STMICROELECTRONICS YET AGAIN AND THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE, UNTENABLE AND HARD TO BELIEVE.

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by justme, Mar 2, 2011.

  1. justme

    justme Guest

    My friend emailed STM a kind but direct letter elucidating just a few
    of their website's problems. This letter went to TWENTY ONE PEOPLE!
    That is correct - 21 ! and it was sent last Friday.

    As of today, no one has even bothered to answer this polite and
    informative letter.

    Is STM dead? Do they even care? Is management vacationing on the
    Riviera?

    I wonder if I could get a of enough volume of a 'showing of hands' to
    even bother posting this letter?

    Thank you.
     
    justme, Mar 2, 2011
    #1
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  2. Big companies are not democracies. I suspect STM has a strictly
    regulated list of people who are allowed to respond to outside
    input. You might get a better response by searching out a bar
    where their engineers hang out after work.

    Mark Borgerson
     
    Mark Borgerson, Mar 2, 2011
    #2
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  3. justme

    Tim Wescott Guest

    I needed something off their site this morning. It was annoying, but
    not impossible. Enough that if I have a rich choice of alternatives I
    won't be choosing STM -- but they never seem to have just what I want,
    anyway.

    --

    Tim Wescott
    Wescott Design Services
    http://www.wescottdesign.com

    Do you need to implement control loops in software?
    "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
    See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
     
    Tim Wescott, Mar 2, 2011
    #3
  4. justme

    malcolm Guest

    With careful use of Google and Digikey's data links, you can almost
    entirely avoid ST's unfortunate experiment :)

    -jg
     
    malcolm, Mar 2, 2011
    #4
  5. justme

    justme Guest

    If STM reads this thread, they will conclude that no one is really
    interested.
     
    justme, Mar 2, 2011
    #5
  6. The really sad thing about this is that ST have some really good stuff (my
    main interest is with ARM microcontrollers). I spoke to my disti about it
    and they agreed (how could they not) that the new web site is truly
    dreadful. It will take time but if ST hear enough moans or lose enough
    business it will change.

    Having said that - can anyone point to a micro manufacturer with a really
    good website ? (Atmel, TI/Luminary and NXP are all nearly as bad as the new
    ST).

    Michael Kellett
     
    Michael Kellett, Mar 2, 2011
    #6
  7. justme

    -jg Guest

    ? TI we rate here as very good. Maxim is also good.

    NXP are trying to improve theirs.

    OnSemi is a very good example of 'No-mans-land syndrome", where the
    lowest level pages are good, and the top level is good, but the jump
    between the two is clunky, and works best if you know already what you
    want by part code.
    Often what you need to search on, is simply missing from their
    choices, and if it is, many tables are incomplete..

    The better websites also let you sort by price.

    -jg
     
    -jg, Mar 2, 2011
    #7
  8. justme

    Leon Guest

    Microchip's is quite good which is just as well, given their vast
    product range.

    Leon
     
    Leon, Mar 2, 2011
    #8
  9. What they should conclude based on the comments here is that people have
    a number of choices and if ST make information difficult to access then
    people will just go elsewhere.

    In other words ST (if you are reading), people may not be interested simply
    because in a number of cases they don't _have_ to do business with you.

    ST are not Microsoft or Google: people actually have other equally
    valid choices from companies who sell products with the same compatible
    functionality.

    Now, having said that, I would still be interested in seeing what the
    letter said and if you post it here, someone within ST might actually
    get it to someone who will actually read it.

    Simon.
     
    Simon Clubley, Mar 2, 2011
    #9
  10. Personally, I like Luminary's old site (luminarymicro.com) much better
    than TI's corresponding pages. The only downside was that you had to
    register to download some things.

    -a
     
    Anders.Montonen, Mar 2, 2011
    #10
  11. justme

    justme Guest

    Well, Simon, my friend sent the letter out to over 21 people again
    and, as usual, with 'return receipt requested and again, no response
    whatsoever. Over 21 people and not one could even return a receipt as
    read, much less reply. If I were in-charge, heads would roll.

    Here is the letter and please let me have your feedback:


    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: EXTREMELY SERIOUS PROBLEMS WITH YOUR WEBSITE!
    Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2011 22:01:15 -0600
    From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    To: , ,
    , , ,
    , ,
    , ,
    , , ,
    , , ,
    , , ,
    ,


    First, let me apologize for such a mailing to so many people employed
    by STM. However, the necessity of this indicates how extremely
    difficult it is to contact ST.


    The website of STM is unusable. Many folks agree with this.

    We were wanting information and files of the Arm Cortex M3 but we are
    also trying to go to the 'contact' page of your website and even it is
    faulty.

    I will be emailing Carlo Bozotti with a copy of this as I feel that
    STM is not aware of just how defective it really is.




    Contained herewith, is just a very sparse sampling of comments with
    regards to your website. These can be verified in the Internet
    Newsgroup section of 'comp.arch.embedded':


    Does anyone else find that STMs web site on Cortex M3 beyond abysmal?
    There are major problems with it and I even emailed them asking for
    some directions on navigating their site ( 3 times) and I have yet to
    receive a response.

    I would appreciate any input about this.

    Thank you.
    Name and email address withheld.




    Recently they changed it all over to flash and now it is absolutely
    appalling.
    Name and email address withheld.





    My input is that I thought "to hell with that" and went and bought a
    Atmel board instead.

    If you look around at various web forums, you will see a lot of
    complaints about the new website.
    Name and email address withheld.





    I didn't think it could be THAT bad. I was wrong.

    By the way, what browser should I use? It doesn't work with FireFox,
    Chrome, or Internet Explorer.
    Name and email address withheld.




    You need Flash installed to use the ST website now which is something
    I refuse to install for just one website as I do not need it for the
    rest of my online activities.

    As well as the fact I've found Flash based websites to be bloated and
    slow, especially when you try browsing them from a mobile Internet
    connection which I do a good portion of the time, I also refuse to
    open my machines to a major source of malware (given Flash's security
    history).

    BTW, someone mentioned when I posted about this new website a month or
    two ago that Google don't index Flash based websites. I wonder if ST
    have considered that...
    Name and email address withheld.





    Just on the CM3? I now find the entire STM site so entirely unusable
    that I'm buying other people's parts just to avoid the horrors of
    having to dig them for datasheets.
    Name and email address withheld.



    You could search it on Doglike, they have links to the data sheets.

    Sometimes it helps trying to write to the CEO about bad web design.
    Usually they don't know how many orders they lose because of such a
    website, maybe because the presentation of the designer looks great,
    but they didn't try to use it as an engineer.

    Last year the website was usable, but now the Flash animation is of
    the size of a postage stamp on my wide screen display (you can see 5
    lines of a product family in a scrollable table, and more than half of
    the screen is empty) and the usual web navigation, like open a link in
    another window, doesn't work and in Linux it doesn't work at all
    (Opera can show the Flash animation).

    I wonder why they waste money on Flash animations for engineers,
    instead of using it for a functional website like Doglike. But of
    course, STM micro controllers and other products are nice.
    Name and email address withheld.




    Too many managers with too little to do.
    Name and email address withheld.






    Thank you and may I expect to hear from you as to corrective action?
    We really like your products.

    xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





    NNNN
     
    justme, Mar 2, 2011
    #11
  12. (Unrelated to the main point discussed here,) I always set my mail
    readers to never return a receipt. I don't see receipt requests at
    all. I assume most sane people would do the same...
     
    Roberto Waltman, Mar 2, 2011
    #12
  13. justme

    justme Guest

    First off, I am not sane. Second, it really doesn't matter as they
    should reply regardless.

    Joe
     
    justme, Mar 2, 2011
    #13
  14. The F18 is a non-mainstream processor, but I have nothing to
    comment on the website of greenarrays
    http://www.greenarrays.com

    (But it is a small website, so navigating would not be a trouble
    anyway.)
    Groetjes Albert
     
    Albert van der Horst, Mar 3, 2011
    #14
  15. The letter seems reasonable and I think you have now done about all
    you can do.

    About the only extra thing I would have done would be to have also
    extracted comments from ST's own forum and included them as well.
    They may have attached more weight to comments which come from multiple
    locations, especially when one of those locations is their own support
    forum.

    Simon.
     
    Simon Clubley, Mar 3, 2011
    #15
  16. Same here.
    I wasn't aware that there was anybody out there who did send receipts.
     
    Grant Edwards, Mar 3, 2011
    #16
  17. justme

    Paul Guest

    Only those in poor setups and do it within corporate/education
    establishments and then expect everybody in the world to do it.

    --
    Paul Carpenter |
    <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
    <http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
    <http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
    <http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate
     
    Paul, Mar 3, 2011
    #17
  18. justme

    justme Guest

    Thanks, Simon. I had thought of that but really, there a large amount
    of errata on their pages.

    They still have not replied. I don't get it.

    Joe

    p.s. Has anyone gotten the STM Discovery kit to communicate with their
    p.c.?
     
    justme, Mar 3, 2011
    #18
  19. justme

    Thad Smith Guest

    Two things:
    1. The more people you copy, the less likely any one person is to respond.
    2. There is probably some internal discussion of the points in your letter, but
    I wouldn't expect a reply until there is agreement on what changes will be made.
    They aren't going to discuss their problems in public unless they have decided
    on a change. Even if they decide to make appropriate changes, they might still
    not send a response.
     
    Thad Smith, Mar 4, 2011
    #19
  20. justme

    rickman Guest

    I'll second the vote for TI. In fact, in most ways I think TI is the
    example that others should try to follow. That's not to say they are
    perfect, but I usually can find the info I want without too much
    trouble at the TI web site. The main shortcoming of most sites is the
    lack of middle layer information. I don't just want a tree structure
    to find a given product, I want real information about the common
    elements of products at each branch of the tree. And please don't
    tell me categories like "Entertainment" or "Automotive" without
    telling me what feature of the devices makes it suitable for those
    categories. It is absurd to make me search across two or more broad
    areas of the site to look for the same type of product!

    And for goodness sakes, don't present your information in a format
    that I can't view with my browser!!! I'd like to shoot the guy that
    invented or maybe the guy who is promoting Flash!

    Rick
     
    rickman, Mar 4, 2011
    #20
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