'Tails' OS and the Mac

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Fred Moore, Apr 29, 2014.

  1. Fred Moore

    Fred Moore Guest

    I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    here can opine:

    I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    encryption, Tor, and no local storage:

    Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    Evade the NSA
    <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>

    There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.
     
    Fred Moore, Apr 29, 2014
    #1
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  2. Fred Moore

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <ljosgu$lr2$>, Fred Moore <>
    wrote:

    > I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    > here can opine:
    >
    > I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    > encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >
    > Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    > Evade the NSA
    > <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >
    > There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    > experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    > machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.


    Well, it seems well-documented:

    https://tails.boum.org/

    You could try it out. Tor isn't your best friend in the world, by the
    way.
    --
    Where's the Vangelis music?
    Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
    They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
    -- notes for Blade Runner
     
    Warren Oates, Apr 29, 2014
    #2
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  3. Fred Moore

    Your Name Guest

    In article <ljosgu$lr2$>, Fred Moore <>
    wrote:
    >
    > I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    > here can opine:
    >
    > I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    > encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >
    > Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    > Evade the NSA <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >
    > There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    > experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    > machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.


    You can't be anonymous on the Internet - it's a physical impossiblity,
    no matter what many companies like proxy servers try to tell you.
    Anyone worried about it is either a looney tin-foil hat wearer or is
    doing something that SHOULD be discovered.
     
    Your Name, Apr 29, 2014
    #3
  4. Fred Moore

    Tom Stiller Guest

    On 2014-04-29, Fred Moore <> wrote:
    > I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    > here can opine:
    >
    > I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    > encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >
    > Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    > Evade the NSA
    ><http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >
    > There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    > experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    > machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.


    You can install Tails on a virtual machine on a Mac but be advised that
    anonymity and security will depend on where you visit and how you interact
    with those sites.
     
    Tom Stiller, Apr 29, 2014
    #4
  5. Fred Moore

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <300420140924023522%>,
    Your Name <> wrote:

    > You can't be anonymous on the Internet - it's a physical impossiblity,
    > no matter what many companies like proxy servers try to tell you.
    > Anyone worried about it is either a looney tin-foil hat wearer or is
    > doing something that SHOULD be discovered.


    Yeah yeah. And Adam and Eve lived among the dinosaurs ...
    --
    Where's the Vangelis music?
    Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
    They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
    -- notes for Blade Runner
     
    Warren Oates, Apr 30, 2014
    #5
  6. Fred Moore

    Your Name Guest

    In article <53604540$0$64250$c3e8da3$>,
    Warren Oates <> wrote:
    > In article <300420140924023522%>,
    > Your Name <> wrote:
    > >
    > > You can't be anonymous on the Internet - it's a physical impossiblity,
    > > no matter what many companies like proxy servers try to tell you.
    > > Anyone worried about it is either a looney tin-foil hat wearer or is
    > > doing something that SHOULD be discovered.

    >
    > Yeah yeah. And Adam and Eve lived among the dinosaurs ...


    Nope. Adma and Eve are just figments of some con artist's imagination
    written into a fantasy novel to start another silly religion so they
    could steal other people's money and possesions.
     
    Your Name, Apr 30, 2014
    #6
  7. Fred Moore

    JF Mezei Guest

    On 14-04-29 21:54, Your Name wrote:

    > Nope. Adma and Eve are just figments of some con artist's imagination
    > written into a fantasy novel to start another silly religion so they
    > could steal other people's money and possesions.


    You got it all wrong. Space aliens came to visit earth. Husband in space
    ship find his wife (Eve) cheating with anothert crew member (Adam) and
    ejects them from space ship and leaves them on Earth to survive alone.

    The horny couple end up mating with chimps and gave them the missing
    link which caused them to start talking. (If you want proof, there have
    been a few documentaries about talking chimps that rule the world).
    Evolution then gave us the current species of lawyers and politicians
    who descended directly from those talking apes.

    They only put that story in old testament so they could get film rights
    for Charlston Heston who felt very strongly that every american should
    be armed to the hilt to combat those talking apes (seems he was
    traumatized by that experience).
     
    JF Mezei, Apr 30, 2014
    #7
  8. Fred Moore

    Your Name Guest

    In article <53605bd8$0$47869$c3e8da3$>, JF
    Mezei <> wrote:
    > On 14-04-29 21:54, Your Name wrote:
    > >
    > > Nope. Adma and Eve are just figments of some con artist's imagination
    > > written into a fantasy novel to start another silly religion so they
    > > could steal other people's money and possesions.

    >
    > You got it all wrong. Space aliens came to visit earth. Husband in space
    > ship find his wife (Eve) cheating with anothert crew member (Adam) and
    > ejects them from space ship and leaves them on Earth to survive alone.
    >
    > The horny couple end up mating with chimps and gave them the missing
    > link which caused them to start talking. (If you want proof, there have
    > been a few documentaries about talking chimps that rule the world).
    > Evolution then gave us the current species of lawyers and politicians
    > who descended directly from those talking apes.


    Lawyers and politicians are descended directly from pond scum, but
    haven't actually evolved any further.




    > They only put that story in old testament so they could get film rights
    > for Charlston Heston who felt very strongly that every american should
    > be armed to the hilt to combat those talking apes (seems he was
    > traumatized by that experience).


    That's because he had his brain whipped to a mush during the chariot
    race.
     
    Your Name, Apr 30, 2014
    #8
  9. Fred Moore

    Guest

    Warren Oates <> writes, quoting
    "Your Name" <>:

    > > You can't be anonymous on the Internet - it's a physical impossiblity,
    > > no matter what many companies like proxy servers try to tell you.
    > > Anyone worried about it is either a looney tin-foil hat wearer or is
    > > doing something that SHOULD be discovered.

    >
    > Yeah yeah. And Adam and Eve lived among the dinosaurs ...


    The guy's a complete idiot. Tails worked well for Ed Snowden,
    just as TrueCrypt withstood a year of the American FBI beating
    on it.

    Billy Y..
    --
    sub #'9+1 ,r0 ; convert ascii byte
    add #9.+1 ,r0 ; to an integer
    bcc 20$ ; not a number
     
    , Apr 30, 2014
    #9
  10. Fred Moore

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.04.29, 14:54 , Fred Moore wrote:
    > I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    > here can opine:
    >
    > I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    > encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >
    > Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    > Evade the NSA
    > <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >
    > There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    > experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    > machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.


    That may defeat the purpose - at least with Fusion - since it uses the
    Mac's ethernet services to access the network and web. I had the same
    thought and I found some blog entries claiming that running Tails in a
    VM would be self defeating. At least for anonymity. You could run it
    there to learn about it. I haven't but it's in my curiosity queue.

    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, Apr 30, 2014
    #10
  11. Fred Moore

    Fred Moore Guest

    On 4/30/14, 4:24 p, Alan Browne wrote:
    > On 2014.04.29, 14:54 , Fred Moore wrote:
    >> I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    >> here can opine:
    >>
    >> I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    >> encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >>
    >> Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    >> Evade the NSA
    >> <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >>
    >> There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    >> experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    >> machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.

    >
    > That may defeat the purpose - at least with Fusion - since it uses the
    > Mac's ethernet services to access the network and web. I had the same
    > thought and I found some blog entries claiming that running Tails in a
    > VM would be self defeating. At least for anonymity. You could run it
    > there to learn about it. I haven't but it's in my curiosity queue.


    Thanks, Alan. That's the kind of info I was looking for but didn't
    really know enough about the topic to Google for an answer. I had a
    suspicion that somehow somewhere something from the Tails VM would get
    written to a Mac cache, var file, or whatever, thus defeating the
    purpose of the entire effort. So I suppose a dedicated piece of hardware
    is really what's necessary.

    I noticed on Macintouch today that a new version of Tor is available,
    with a Mac variant. Exactly how much benefit is there in running that on
    a Mac without an underlying OS such as Tails? What sort of identifiers
    get left behind to track you? Thanks.
     
    Fred Moore, Apr 30, 2014
    #11
  12. Fred Moore

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.04.30, 17:07 , Fred Moore wrote:
    > On 4/30/14, 4:24 p, Alan Browne wrote:
    >> On 2014.04.29, 14:54 , Fred Moore wrote:
    >>> I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    >>> here can opine:
    >>>
    >>> I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    >>> encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >>>
    >>> Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    >>> Evade the NSA
    >>> <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >>>
    >>> There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    >>> experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    >>> machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.

    >>
    >> That may defeat the purpose - at least with Fusion - since it uses the
    >> Mac's ethernet services to access the network and web. I had the same
    >> thought and I found some blog entries claiming that running Tails in a
    >> VM would be self defeating. At least for anonymity. You could run it
    >> there to learn about it. I haven't but it's in my curiosity queue.

    >
    > Thanks, Alan. That's the kind of info I was looking for but didn't
    > really know enough about the topic to Google for an answer. I had a
    > suspicion that somehow somewhere something from the Tails VM would get
    > written to a Mac cache, var file, or whatever, thus defeating the
    > purpose of the entire effort. So I suppose a dedicated piece of hardware
    > is really what's necessary.
    >
    > I noticed on Macintouch today that a new version of Tor is available,
    > with a Mac variant. Exactly how much benefit is there in running that on
    > a Mac without an underlying OS such as Tails? What sort of identifiers
    > get left behind to track you? Thanks.


    Tor does not need you to be too careful about what you do. You're onion
    wrapped and tossed computer to computer to computer with encryption
    layers between each, each hiding IP addresses a layer away in each
    direction and then erasing all info after each session (servers and
    within your client). Tracing you would be extremely difficult and
    require international cooperation of incredible complexity. Tor is more
    for the home or office user who doesn't care what is on his system - he
    just doesn't want an intercept to occur in the middle.

    Tails is more about leaving no trace on the computer you're using. If
    your computer is seized, nothing will have been written to disk (caches,
    history, files, etc.). In the end you are not possessing compromising
    material. Not even encrypted material that might get "the authorities"
    to ask what's in that encrypted file. This is why some journalists use
    tails. They can write their story and send it (encrypted) and there is
    no copy or version of it on the machine they have in possession.
    Anything intercepted is very well encrypted and not likely to be decoded
    other than by rubber hose. Put it in a VM and you can't tell what may
    be recorded on the host OS side.

    I tried Tor sometime last year and found it to be very slow to load
    whatever page I was interested in. I don't think that's the
    application's fault but a consequence of the chain of intermediary
    computers/networks (onion layers) in the chain.

    I'm trying Tor as I write this, latest v. and yep, it's not nimble nor
    quick. But it does seem faster than last time I tried it.

    Loaded cbc.ca
    le figaro (French newspaper)
    gmail - forced to authenticate using a 6 digit number sent
    by text message to my phone.

    Performance is not too bad. But I recall in the past sessions where it
    was slower or varying. I'll try it more over the next while for the
    hell of it. Tails is something for another day.


    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, Apr 30, 2014
    #12
  13. Fred Moore

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.04.30, 17:57 , Alan Browne wrote:
    > On 2014.04.30, 17:07 , Fred Moore wrote:
    >> On 4/30/14, 4:24 p, Alan Browne wrote:
    >>> On 2014.04.29, 14:54 , Fred Moore wrote:
    >>>> I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    >>>> here can opine:
    >>>>
    >>>> I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS
    >>>> using
    >>>> encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >>>>
    >>>> Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    >>>> Evade the NSA
    >>>> <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >>>>
    >>>> There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    >>>> experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    >>>> machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.
    >>>
    >>> That may defeat the purpose - at least with Fusion - since it uses the
    >>> Mac's ethernet services to access the network and web. I had the same
    >>> thought and I found some blog entries claiming that running Tails in a
    >>> VM would be self defeating. At least for anonymity. You could run it
    >>> there to learn about it. I haven't but it's in my curiosity queue.

    >>
    >> Thanks, Alan. That's the kind of info I was looking for but didn't
    >> really know enough about the topic to Google for an answer. I had a
    >> suspicion that somehow somewhere something from the Tails VM would get
    >> written to a Mac cache, var file, or whatever, thus defeating the
    >> purpose of the entire effort. So I suppose a dedicated piece of hardware
    >> is really what's necessary.
    >>
    >> I noticed on Macintouch today that a new version of Tor is available,
    >> with a Mac variant. Exactly how much benefit is there in running that on
    >> a Mac without an underlying OS such as Tails? What sort of identifiers
    >> get left behind to track you? Thanks.

    >
    > Tor does not need you to be too careful about what you do. You're onion
    > wrapped and tossed computer to computer to computer with encryption
    > layers between each, each hiding IP addresses a layer away in each
    > direction and then erasing all info after each session (servers and
    > within your client). Tracing you would be extremely difficult and
    > require international cooperation of incredible complexity. Tor is more
    > for the home or office user who doesn't care what is on his system - he
    > just doesn't want an intercept to occur in the middle.
    >
    > Tails is more about leaving no trace on the computer you're using.


    And, (I forgot to mention,) it forces you through Tor in any case.

    If
    > your computer is seized, nothing will have been written to disk (caches,
    > history, files, etc.). In the end you are not possessing compromising
    > material. Not even encrypted material that might get "the authorities"
    > to ask what's in that encrypted file. This is why some journalists use
    > tails. They can write their story and send it (encrypted) and there is
    > no copy or version of it on the machine they have in possession.
    > Anything intercepted is very well encrypted and not likely to be decoded
    > other than by rubber hose. Put it in a VM and you can't tell what may
    > be recorded on the host OS side.
    >
    > I tried Tor sometime last year and found it to be very slow to load
    > whatever page I was interested in. I don't think that's the
    > application's fault but a consequence of the chain of intermediary
    > computers/networks (onion layers) in the chain.
    >
    > I'm trying Tor as I write this, latest v. and yep, it's not nimble nor
    > quick. But it does seem faster than last time I tried it.
    >
    > Loaded cbc.ca
    > le figaro (French newspaper)
    > gmail - forced to authenticate using a 6 digit number sent
    > by text message to my phone.
    >
    > Performance is not too bad. But I recall in the past sessions where it
    > was slower or varying. I'll try it more over the next while for the
    > hell of it. Tails is something for another day.
    >
    >



    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, Apr 30, 2014
    #13
  14. Fred Moore

    JF Mezei Guest

    Leaving no trace on computer: perhaps base all browser and temp files on
    a RAM disk. You only save to iron disk files that are not compromising.
     
    JF Mezei, Apr 30, 2014
    #14
  15. Fred Moore

    Fred Moore Guest

    Here is another possible privacy weapon from the EFF, Privacy Badger.
    Obviously much more limited in scope than Tails or Tor.

    EFF “Privacy Badger” plugin aimed at forcing websites to stop tracking users
    <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/05/eff-privacy-badger-plugin-aimed-at-forcing-websites-to-stop-tracking-users/>

    Still in alpha and no Safari version unfortunately. The article also
    mentions the HTTPS Everywhere extension which might be useful, but again
    no Safari version.
     
    Fred Moore, May 2, 2014
    #15
  16. Fred Moore

    Lewis Guest

    In message <300420140924023522%>
    Your Name <> wrote:
    > In article <ljosgu$lr2$>, Fred Moore <>
    > wrote:
    >>
    >> I posted this on Macintouch and got no response, but perhaps someone
    >> here can opine:
    >>
    >> I recently read an article from Wired about Tails, a *Nix-based OS using
    >> encryption, Tor, and no local storage:
    >>
    >> Out in the Open: Inside the Operating System Edward Snowden Used to
    >> Evade the NSA <http://www.wired.com/2014/04/tails/>
    >>
    >> There is a download link for Tails in the article. Anyone here have any
    >> experience with it? I wonder if you could install Tails in a virtual
    >> machine on a Mac and achieve anonymity and security that way.


    > You can't be anonymous on the Internet - it's a physical impossiblity,


    You are completely 100% wrong.

    --
    When treading water in a circle of sharks, a wizard will always consider
    other wizards to be the most immediate danger. --The Last Continent
     
    Lewis, May 2, 2014
    #16
  17. Fred Moore

    Your Name Guest

    In article <lk0j2t$ms5$>, Fred Moore <>
    wrote:
    >
    > Here is another possible privacy weapon from the EFF, Privacy Badger.
    > Obviously much more limited in scope than Tails or Tor.
    >
    > EFF ìPrivacy Badgerî plugin aimed at forcing websites to stop tracking users
    >
    > <http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/05/eff-privacy-badger-plug
    > in-aimed-at-forcing-websites-to-stop-tracking-users/>
    >
    > Still in alpha and no Safari version unfortunately. The article also
    > mentions the HTTPS Everywhere extension which might be useful, but again
    > no Safari version.


    Even *if* that actually worked, you're still "tracked" by numerous
    other methods, including your ISP connection.

    Anyone who believes they're anonymous when using the Internet is an
    idiot.
     
    Your Name, May 3, 2014
    #17
  18. Fred Moore

    Warren Oates Guest

    In article <030520141159364300%>,
    Your Name <> wrote:

    > Even *if* that actually worked, you're still "tracked" by numerous
    > other methods, including your ISP connection.
    >
    > Anyone who believes they're anonymous when using the Internet is an
    > idiot.


    We're talking about _serious_ anonymity here, not just posting to Usenet
    or sending stuff through remailers. It's not even very hard to be
    totally anonymous, just takes some time and some money.
    --
    Where's the Vangelis music?
    Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
    They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing room scene.
    -- notes for Blade Runner
     
    Warren Oates, May 3, 2014
    #18
  19. Fred Moore

    Your Name Guest

    In article <5364f0e6$0$51580$c3e8da3$>,
    Warren Oates <> wrote:
    > In article <030520141159364300%>,
    > Your Name <> wrote:
    > >
    > > Even *if* that actually worked, you're still "tracked" by numerous
    > > other methods, including your ISP connection.
    > >
    > > Anyone who believes they're anonymous when using the Internet is an
    > > idiot.

    >
    > We're talking about _serious_ anonymity here, not just posting to Usenet
    > or sending stuff through remailers. It's not even very hard to be
    > totally anonymous, just takes some time and some money.


    If you're logged on to the Internet, then your ISP knows who and where
    you are, or an Internet cafe has you on camera ... the exception of
    course is if you steal someone else's account, but you're still not
    truly anonymous.
     
    Your Name, May 3, 2014
    #19
  20. Fred Moore

    Alan Browne Guest

    On 2014.05.03, 18:18 , Your Name wrote:
    > In article <5364f0e6$0$51580$c3e8da3$>,
    > Warren Oates <> wrote:
    >> In article <030520141159364300%>,
    >> Your Name <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Even *if* that actually worked, you're still "tracked" by numerous
    >>> other methods, including your ISP connection.
    >>>
    >>> Anyone who believes they're anonymous when using the Internet is an
    >>> idiot.

    >>
    >> We're talking about _serious_ anonymity here, not just posting to Usenet
    >> or sending stuff through remailers. It's not even very hard to be
    >> totally anonymous, just takes some time and some money.

    >
    > If you're logged on to the Internet, then your ISP knows who and where
    > you are, or an Internet cafe has you on camera ... the exception of
    > course is if you steal someone else's account, but you're still not
    > truly anonymous.


    Using tails (which uses Tor) or Tor alone, all they can see is you're
    routed to some address out there. All of that traffic is encrypted and
    the next stop (IP address) along the way is encrypted and so on. So the
    sole information that they have is that you (or someone using your ISP
    connection) was connected to the web. At most they'd know the MAC
    address of the computer or device.

    At that point if you're a possible suspect in a murder that took place
    (on an appropriately dark and stormy night in a dark alley in the wrong
    part of town) the police could resort to traffic analysis to show that
    you _weren't_ using the web at hours that you typically do, therefore
    you weren't home. Countering this ...

    --
    "Big data can reduce anything to a single number,
    but you shouldn’t be fooled by the appearance of exactitude."
    -Gary Marcus and Ernest Davis, NYT, 2014.04.07
     
    Alan Browne, May 3, 2014
    #20
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