Text Edit & Word Pad

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Frank, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. Frank

    Frank Guest

    I posted some .rtf files produced with Windows Word Pad. When opened with OS-X Text Edit the formatting was not the same. Text Edit doesn't have features needed for the .rtf files produced by Word Pad. What should I use in Windows to produce .rtf file which can be viewed in the same format when using OS-X?
     
    Frank, Aug 23, 2013
    #1
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  2. How do they differ?
     
    Michelle Steiner, Aug 23, 2013
    #2
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  3. Frank

    John Varela Guest

    You have posted the identical query to three different news groups.
    This would have an appropriate item to cross-post.
     
    John Varela, Aug 23, 2013
    #3
  4. Well, were the fonts the same in both systems? That is, did you use the
    same Microsoft font on both the PC and MacOS? Helvetica may not be the
    same on Windows as MacOS. Even the Verdana is most likly different.

    The bolding/italics/underlining would probably come through. What about
    line spacing or paragraph spacing?

    I've always found TextEdit and anything that uses it (e.g. iNotepad) to
    be really clunky about styles.
     
    Michael Vilain, Aug 23, 2013
    #4
  5. Frank

    Your Name Guest

    The fault is most likely to be at the Notepad end. Microsoft yet again not
    sticking to established standards (in this case RTF) and doing things
    their own way.
     
    Your Name, Aug 23, 2013
    #5
  6. Frank

    JF Mezei Guest

    Since RTF is a Microsoft standard, you have to give Microsoft some
    leaway here.

    Also, Textedit isn't really meant to be a word processor, and while it
    does support some text processing features, one should not be surprised
    if it doesn't support all of them.
     
    JF Mezei, Aug 23, 2013
    #6
  7. Frank

    Frank Guest

    That is, did you use the
    same Microsoft font on both the PC and MacOS?

    No, I used the default ones on both. What do you suggest I use so that file made on Windows Word Pad will appear thew same to someone using Text Edit (assuming default font on Tex Edit)? Main prob was spacing. WordPad spacing format was where the problem appeared in Text Edit.
     
    Frank, Aug 25, 2013
    #7
  8. That is, did you use the
    same Microsoft font on both the PC and MacOS?

    No, I used the default ones on both. What do you suggest I use so that
    file made on Windows Word Pad will appear thew same to someone using Text
    Edit (assuming default font on Tex Edit)? Main prob was spacing.
    Word Pad spacing format was where the problem appeared in Text Edit.[/QUOTE]

    Linespacing (individual line space), word spacing (gaps between words),
    or paragraph spacing (space between blocks of text).
     
    Michael Vilain, Aug 25, 2013
    #8
  9. For a file to appear "the same" on different computers, there's really
    only two options:

    - a PDF with the fonts embedded, but even this can may not
    look the same due to differences in the way various PDF
    viewer applications work,

    - convert the file to JPEG images.


    Due to licensing issues, I don't think there are any fonts available on
    both Windows and Mac OS computers as standard. If Mac users install
    Microsoft Office, then it does also install all the usual Office fonts
    (Arial, Verdana, Wingdings, etc.), but there are still slight differences
    in the way the OSes handle displaying fonts that can cause spacing issues
    and re-flowing of the text.

    Helpful Harry :eek:)
     
    Helpful Harry, Aug 25, 2013
    #9
  10. Actually, I think the standard web font set are on Windows and MacOS. I
    just did a re-install of 10.8.4 and it put a bunch of "Microsoft" fonts
    on my machine

    Andale
    Arial
    Courier New
    Comic Sans
    Georgia
    Gill Sans
    Times Roman
    Trebuchet
    Verdana
    Wingdings

    CSS specs recommend you specify fonts as a bunch of types to remain as
    generic as possible.

    body: {
    font-family: "Times New Roman", Serif;
    }

    http://www.w3schools.com/cssref/pr_font_font-family.asp

    While something set with Helvetica on MacOS won't paginate or look quite
    the same as something set with Arial, if you specify Arial shouldn't it
    be the same? Are the MacOS Arial and the Windows Arial the same font
    with identical character spacing and line spacing metrics?

    But truely, the only 100% compatible formatting is PDF because it can
    embed fonts with it.
     
    Michael Vilain, Aug 25, 2013
    #10
  11. Which is why of course governments and corporations seem to delight in
    using MS Word .doc and .docx as an interchange file format(s)...

    Makes me want to scream when, for example, I'm asked for my resume in
    Word format. I know it will then look wrong on their system.
     
    Jamie Kahn Genet, Aug 26, 2013
    #11
  12. Frank

    JF Mezei Guest

    It is also entirely possible that TextEdit renders the document properly
    and it is Wordpad which does werid things with the .rtf


    If you have another word processing application on either Mac or
    Windows, try to open that .rtf to see what it looks like.

    Font substitutions do not generally cause line spacing and other
    paragraph related issues to prop up (but can cause a paragraph to span
    an extra line or one less line if the substituted font causes word
    flowing to change. But that is rare.

    Is .rtf the native format for wordPad ? If not, are there options when
    you export your document to .rtf ? Perhaps there are flags in there to
    include/exclude certain formatting.
     
    JF Mezei, Aug 26, 2013
    #12
  13. You may be right, I don't have a pristine Mac OS install to check, but I
    think those are only installed by Mac Office, Internet Explorer, or some
    other Microsoft product (or possibly other software too like Adobe).


    Nope. There are minor differences in the way the operating systems and
    applications handle the display of fonts that can cause text to reflow.
    Even the EXACT same font file can behave slightly differently on Windows
    and Mac machines.

    Sometimes you can get an Office document from a Windows PC that looks fine
    on a Mac (or vice versa) ... until you start to edit it, and then it
    becomes a mess as everything reflows and shifts.

    An application like InDesign that handles font metrics properly may fare
    better, but I wouldn't count on that being perfect either.


    Even PDFs can get screwed up when using older or third-party PDF reader
    applications.

    The old version of Preview, for example, on my Mac does some horrendous
    things with the layouts of some PDFs. Even my old version of Acrobat
    Reader can't properly handle CMYK colours - they look fine on-screen, but
    when you try to save that as an image format, the colours are attrocious.

    The only 100% compatible option is to use a JPEG image, even then it may
    not come out EXACTLY the same due to difference in screen resolutions,
    screen gammas, etc.


    Helpful Harry :eek:)
     
    Helpful Harry, Aug 26, 2013
    #13
  14. After I did my re-install of 10.8 from the Install Mountain Lion.app,
    these fonts were on my system in /Library/Fonts with that day's date.
    In the pre-install system, I'd stashed them in /Library/Fonts/Microsoft
    where they still were. The files were identical, so Microsoft isn't
    installing these on my machine. Apple is.

    There are a bunch of other fonts also that are part of Microsoft Word
    which I stashed in /Library/Font-Vault that were untouched.
     
    Michael Vilain, Aug 26, 2013
    #14
  15. Frank

    Frank Guest

    word spacing
     
    Frank, Aug 26, 2013
    #15
  16. That's either the gap between words or the gap between individual
    letters. I should have added that.

    Most likely this is the difference in fonts between the systems.
    Helpful Harry mentioned that the PC and Mac versions OF THE SAME FONTS
    will turn out differently between MacOS and Windows.

    So, looks like you're out of luck here. His suggestion is JPEG files.
    Even PDF won't have the same formatting, according to him.
     
    Michael Vilain, Aug 26, 2013
    #16
  17. Frank

    Lewis Guest

     
    Lewis, Aug 27, 2013
    #17
  18. According to Apple's support page, you are right about those fonts (plus
    Webdings and possibly a few more) being stanard in Mac OS X 10.8.
    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5379

    I haven't got time to find the lists for older versions of Mac OS, so I
    don't know when they started being included. It may even have been from
    the very first Mac OS X release and I simply never noticed since I've
    almost always had to install Office immediately on people's new or
    re-installed Macs anyway.


    Of course, fonts, like everything else, have different versions /
    releases, which also add to the isiues of docments not looking exactly the
    same on various computers even with the same fonts.

    Helpful Harry :eek:)
     
    Helpful Harry, Aug 27, 2013
    #18
  19. Frank

    Frank Guest

    Produced and uploaded page to website from windows 7machine & all went well.. Word Pad would open it fine. On Mac with OS 10.7.5 I could download it but not view it. Finder correctly identified it as a 475 KB rtf file but the icon which in other cases would show view of first page (on the right) showed that as blank (i.e. solid white).
     
    Frank, Aug 27, 2013
    #19
  20. Frank

    Frank Guest


    Latest development. On Mac machine and on Windows 7 machine Open Office would open the file with original format preserved. It looks fine with both.Implication, I guess is to use Open Office to produce, and then to exportas PDF file which works fine on both OS's if the file is for public consumption.
     
    Frank, Aug 27, 2013
    #20
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