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The end of the road for the DIY PC?

Discussion in 'Intel' started by Yousuf Khan, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Yousuf Khan

    Paul Guest

    Bug Dout wrote:
    > But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
    > old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0 ports,
    > that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
    > external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
    > high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.
    >
    > The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
    > replaced, not just the CPU.


    Asrock's solution from years ago, was a separate processor
    module. Now, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but it gives
    another idea of how to chop up hardware if required. The
    FSB in that case (edge card), would be HyperTransport.
    On an Intel equivalent, that might be DMI or DMI + PCIE.

    http://www.asrock.com/mb/spec/upgrade.asp?Model=939CPU Board

    But you could just as easily do a BGA to PGA adapter PCB
    and solder the BGA processors to that, before distribution.
    PGA ZIF sockets are a pretty reliable technology, and companies
    like Foxconn or Lopes could make one specifically for the purpose,
    if called upon. There are plenty of ways to slice it.

    http://www.murrietta.com/services_interposers.html

    Paul
     
    Paul, Nov 29, 2012
    #21
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  2. Yousuf Khan

    Robert Myers Guest

    On Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:46:16 PM UTC-5, Yousuf Khan wrote:
    >
    >
    > I suppose you could keep upgrading if you buy a full new motherboard
    >
    > alongside your CPU, you'd probably have to buy it with new memory also.
    >
    >

    The CPU upgrade fantasy has always been an AMDroid dream. You buy a new processor and motherboard together. Why would you want a fancy new processorin a motherboard with last year's USB, disk controllers, memory channels, and ethernet? For the time being, if you're an Intel dude, nothing will change. The painful bit is all the memory piling up that you can't use any longer, but it, too, is obsolete.

    Much more worrying to me is that Intel has no obvious intent to stay in thedesktop business. What I can now buy as a desktop chip I will in the future have to pay Xeon prices for, both for processor and motherboard. Maybe that's Intel's business plan for maintaining its margins. If you want a toy, you can buy a toy and pay toy prices. If you want a computer, it will be as if DEC had risen from the dead.

    As things stand now, though, I don't see that Intel has a business model for the future that it has ever presented to anyone. Paul Otellini has seen the future and it clearly isn't his. It may not be Intel's, either. At least that's what the stock market seems to think.

    Robert.
     
    Robert Myers, Nov 30, 2012
    #22
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  3. Yousuf Khan

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    On 29/11/2012 5:19 PM, Paul wrote:
    > Bug Dout wrote:
    >> But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
    >> old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0
    >> ports,
    >> that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
    >> external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
    >> high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.
    >>
    >> The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
    >> replaced, not just the CPU.

    >
    > Asrock's solution from years ago, was a separate processor
    > module. Now, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but it gives
    > another idea of how to chop up hardware if required. The
    > FSB in that case (edge card), would be HyperTransport.
    > On an Intel equivalent, that might be DMI or DMI + PCIE.


    They would need to come up with a standard module across multiple mobo
    manufacturers.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Dec 1, 2012
    #23
  4. Re: Re: The end of the road for the DIY PC?

    On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:11:56 -0500, Yousuf Khan
    <> wrote:

    >On 29/11/2012 5:19 PM, Paul wrote:
    >> Bug Dout wrote:
    >>> But the lack of a replaceable CPU need not doom DIY. I have a 5+ year
    >>> old DIY PC that I am considering upgrading. But since I want USB 3.0
    >>> ports,
    >>> that means I have to replace the MB anyway, and probably the case to get
    >>> external USB 3.0 ports. And maybe the disk drives to get the latest
    >>> high-speed drives there, and of course memory, to get the best.
    >>>
    >>> The point being, after a couple of years, lots of things have to be
    >>> replaced, not just the CPU.

    >>
    >> Asrock's solution from years ago, was a separate processor
    >> module. Now, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but it gives
    >> another idea of how to chop up hardware if required. The
    >> FSB in that case (edge card), would be HyperTransport.
    >> On an Intel equivalent, that might be DMI or DMI + PCIE.

    >
    >They would need to come up with a standard module across multiple mobo
    >manufacturers.


    That would be up to the CPU manufacturers (to create a
    standard module) or the motherboard manufacturers.

    Then the motherboards could, in theory at least, accept any
    processor with the proper module connection. This would mean
    the processor (the most expensive part in most systems)
    could move to a newer motherboard as desired, thus saving
    that immediate cost for the customer (if they wanted to keep
    their current CPU). It would also mean used CPUs could be
    more readily resellable (say via eBay) because each one
    would be re-usable by a wide range of motherboards because
    they were no longer "socket bound" to a particular
    generation of motherboards that were no longer made.

    There are some limitations (i.e. various N/S bridges, etc)
    that may make this non-feasible over all ranges, but that is
    more because companies are targeting each motherboard at a
    specific range of CPUs by one manufacturer. When that
    differentiation is no longer needed, motherboards become
    more expensive (because they are more complex) but also
    become more valuable (to the end user) because they are
    usable for a longer period of time.

    If the idea of a "CPU module" is considered viable, then so
    is a "memory module"--for the same reason (swap out a DDR2
    module for DDR3 and use the newer/bigger memory). As well as
    a "card slot module" (dump PCIe-1 for PCIe-3).

    Change cases to have standard-sized spots for all comm
    standard (USBx, eSATAx, TBoltx, etc). Then have them all
    share the same mounting bracket format--so they all fit the
    same case opening. The plug within the bracket for each is
    different--but all will mount into the same external case
    spot (customer choice of which goes where). Which means
    cases last longer because they do not become obsolete.

    All of this significantly changes the market for
    computers--in favor of the consumer.
     
    Gerald Abrahamson, Dec 2, 2012
    #24
  5. Yousuf Khan

    Flasherly Guest

    On Dec 2, 11:55 am, Gerald Abrahamson <> wrote:
    >
    > All of this significantly changes the market for
    > computers--in favor of the consumer.


    Pipe dreams. It's all too critical a interdependency of overall
    standards in balance with MPU-dependencies, accounting engineering
    design and third-party chipset support. No one is interested in
    dumbing it down, a few decades into the past, for stick-toy Lego plug-
    in computer, one size fits all. This is rocket science, after all, or
    ballistics and code-breaking as computers have heralded -- ostensibly,
    aides to a new age of augmenting accountability to the miniscule --
    and thereby a shifting focus available to modern man, a certain aspect
    to defraying tedium for exactitudes, formerly unavailable to thought
    processes.

    This one size, tableted wonder for superceding, of late, is precisely
    consumer oriented. Well-within expectancies and dependencies society
    has adapted to a provisionary will and role science, as engineers,
    accommodate as Hagel's beneficiary to the commonwealth of all. Life
    is so simple and easier if in as inasmuch it's an expectancy and
    behest, dare we say, granted and given down to us. There's less to
    think upon, actually, to exercise will over discretionary matters not
    provided, by course, from advertorial discretion provided by firms
    engaged at Madison and 5th. Ave.

    The inbred of proclivity. Yes, as once spoken in DOS in concurrent
    unison, arise ye to the Banner of Obfuscation, the imposed upon
    berated minions beneath a perspicacious consciousness of idioms for
    relating to OPERANDS as directives to a machine binary language. What
    little Winderz may foal this omnibus of juggernauts. As so it is now,
    as the champions toll out before the PC's Death, to espouse and opine
    before wristwatch computers in their curiously gawking forms of
    vernacular -- B4 we find collective peace in a collective slumbering
    insolence, 'R CMe UTubed, be we once more assured, and let us finally
    rest -- lest these machines on desktops tax our cumulative conscious
    further, and by failure last we dispose all vestige residual to model
    WWW III into our own image and likeness.

    --
    "There must be something in books, something we can't imagine...;
    there must be something there. You don't stay [in a burning house -
    fl.] for nothing." -- Ray Bradbury, Fahrenheit 451
     
    Flasherly, Dec 2, 2012
    #25
  6. Yousuf Khan

    Guest

    I have an Asus mainboard that supports just about every LGA775 CPU from Prescott to Core 2 Quad 1333 FSB. That it the sort of thing I want (even though I would never put a Pentium D in it). It was just nice to know you have a bit of choice.
     
    , Dec 8, 2012
    #26
  7. Yousuf Khan

    Chimbo Guest

    In article <2c48805c-7d90-482a-a7ef-
    >
    Flasherly <> wrote:
    >
    > On Dec 2, 11:55 am, Gerald Abrahamson <> wrote:
    > >
    > > All of this significantly changes the market for
    > > computers--in favor of the consumer.

    >
    > Pipe dreams. It's all too critical a interdependency of overall
    > standards in balance with MPU-dependencies, accounting engineering
    > design and third-party chipset support. No one is interested in
    > dumbing it down, a few decades into the past, for stick-toy Lego plug-
    > in computer, one size fits all. This is rocket science, after all, or
    > ballistics and code-breaking as computers have heralded -- ostensibly,
    > aides to a new age of augmenting accountability to the miniscule --
    > and thereby a shifting focus available to modern man, a certain aspect
    > to defraying tedium for exactitudes, formerly unavailable to thought
    > processes.
    >
    > This one size, tableted wonder for superceding, of late, is precisely
    > consumer oriented. Well-within expectancies and dependencies society
    > has adapted to a provisionary will and role science, as engineers,
    > accommodate as Hagel's beneficiary to the commonwealth of all. Life
    > is so simple and easier if in as inasmuch it's an expectancy and
    > behest, dare we say, granted and given down to us. There's less to
    > think upon, actually, to exercise will over discretionary matters not
    > provided, by course, from advertorial discretion provided by firms
    > engaged at Madison and 5th. Ave


    Snorrr...

    Don't be a defeatist. Independent builders account for a big
    chunk of revenue.

    If US manufacturers decide to cut independents out, the Chinese
    and Indians will only be too happy to cut us back in.

    Of course, it wouldn't be the first time Intel did something
    stupid...and ultimately paid the price for it.
     
    Chimbo, Mar 17, 2013
    #27
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