The Idiocy of the Power Brick

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Paul Sture, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. Paul Sture

    Paul Sture Guest

    Paul Sture, Mar 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. Paul Sture

    TaliesinSoft Guest

    TaliesinSoft, Mar 16, 2007
    #2
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  3. Tesla would be so proud if this included Power Over Wi-Fi.

    So far, with the right hardware, we can do up to 12.49 Watts with PoE.
    A guesstimate on the Watts that a laptop computer requires is something
    like 45W.

    But it is good enough for things like routers, switches and Wi-Fi access
    points, which is sort of the killer app for PoE. Just don't expect your
    laptops, scanners or printers to be supported by PoE in a hurry!
     
    Clever Monkey, Mar 16, 2007
    #3
  4. Um before we get to that point, I suggest that everyone read "Waldo" by
    Robert A. Heinlein.
    Or any Bluetooth device.

    But possibly telephones plugged into Vonage interface boxes could get
    PoE.
     
    Michelle Steiner, Mar 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Paul Sture

    Stu Bulman Guest

    You may also want to check out:

    http://www.mpathx.com

    They are aiming at the pro audio and video market but essentially they
    have some interesting ideas for anyone who's saddled with power bricks
    and the like.
     
    Stu Bulman, Mar 16, 2007
    #5
  6. Nice. I have a new item for my A/V wishlist.
     
    Clever Monkey, Mar 16, 2007
    #6
  7. Paul Sture

    Davoud Guest

    That's more idiocy. I don't want everything connected to an Ethernet
    hub.

    "Existing Lan cabling?" I got away from that the very day that Apple
    released the first AirPort base station.

    "Network camera" connected to an Ethernet port? What good would that do
    me? I need my camera built in. If carrying a power brick with me when I
    travel is the price for having an iSight built into my MB Pro, I'm glad
    to pay it.

    Speaking of traveling, am I to carry an Ethernet Switch and a "Power
    Over Ethernet Midspan Hub" in my bag alongside my MB Pro? Wouldn't it
    be easier to carry a power brick?

    IP Telephone? I've got one of those in every Mac, even my older ones.
    It's called "Skype."

    Surely the referenced document refers to 19th century computing. What
    good is a bluetooth access point at home when I am on the road with my
    MB Pro and my Canon iP90 portable bluetooth printer?

    Davoud
     
    Davoud, Mar 16, 2007
    #7
  8. Paul Sture

    Paul Sture Guest

    That's more idiocy. I don't want everything connected to an Ethernet
    hub.[/QUOTE]

    Just because you don't want it doesn't mean that others don't want it.

    I envisage it being optional anyway, especially for mobile requirements.
    Me, me, me, me. You haven't paid one iota of attention to what others
    may find useful.
     
    Paul Sture, Mar 17, 2007
    #8
  9. Paul Sture

    Paul Sture Guest

    Thanks Stu, that looks promising and worth further investigation.
     
    Paul Sture, Mar 17, 2007
    #9
  10. Paul Sture

    Davoud Guest

    Paul Sture:
    Paul Sture:
    It's good to know that I won't be required by law to adopt this idea.

    Davoud:
    Paul Sture:
    OK, it's out there, you have publicized it, anyone can find it on the
    web. Why don't you report back in a year and let us know what others,
    others, others, others think about this as indicated by the percentage
    of computer users who /adopt/ the idea. Please report separately the
    percentage of laptop owners who carry with them an Ethernet switch and
    a "Power Over Ethernet Midspan Hub."

    Davoud
     
    Davoud, Mar 17, 2007
    #10
  11. Paul Sture

    Paul Sture Guest

    Paul Sture:
    It's good to know that I won't be required by law to adopt this idea.[/QUOTE]

    WTF is up with you? I suggest something that someone, obviously not you,
    might want, and you launch into an attack.

    CleverMonkey gave us _all_ feedback on its limitations, then Stu gave
    another suggestion. I have learnt from both of them, and greatly
    appreciate their feedback.

    Please tell me what is wrong with trying to share knowledge with folks
    who I judge to be quite intelligent.
     
    Paul Sture, Mar 17, 2007
    #11
  12. Paul Sture

    Davoud Guest

    Paul Sture:
    Paul Sture:
    ?? You said you like the idea. OK. I said I think it's silly. OK?

    Davoud
     
    Davoud, Mar 17, 2007
    #12
  13. Paul Sture

    Paul Sture Guest

    Thanks Mike.

    Diplomacy and a subtle word in someone's ear is far better than flaming.
     
    Paul Sture, Mar 18, 2007
    #13
  14. Paul Sture

    Davoud Guest

    Yes, I explained /why/ it is silly.

    I stand by that. And I repeat the part that Mr. Sture chose to omit:
    "Why don't you report back in a year and let us know what others,
    think about this as indicated by the percentage of computer users who
    /adopt/ the idea. Please report separately the percentage of laptop
    owners who carry with them an Ethernet switch and a "Power Over
    Ethernet Midspan Hub."

    In fact, considering that the referenced article was written four years
    ago, a report on the vast number of home users who have /already/
    jumped on board would be great. I take it Mr. Sture and Mr. Rosenberg
    are using this scheme. Instead of citing a web page, tell us your own
    experiences. Are you enjoying the luxury of having a network camera in
    your commo closet? Put it live on the web so we can all share the
    excitement of seeing the inside of the closet door. Explain to this
    dummy how having a bluetooth access point in my commo closet helps me
    connect my Dual G5 tower to a bluetooth printer three floors away.

    Where can I buy an Ethernet-powered wireless base station, bluetooth
    access point, and network camera, by the way? I might want to try them.
    Might as well add a couple of Ethernet-powered printers...

    Davoud
     
    Davoud, Mar 18, 2007
    #14
  15. Paul Sture

    Nelson Guest

    [snip]
    Just jump into your Ethernet-powered car and drive on down to Ethernet
    City. They have a wide selection.
     
    Nelson, Mar 18, 2007
    #15
  16. Well, the idea is that you can have that BT device anywhere you can run
    CAT-5e, which is less limiting than having to have the devices
    immediately hang off a wiring closet.

    The assumption is that PoE applications have no problem running miles of
    CAT-5e, but do have a problem running miles of live conduit.
    The killer app for PoE was larger deployments, where coordinating power
    and ethernet drops would be too expensive or problematic. i.e., one of
    the first markets that wanted it were schools and other industrial
    applications, which were constrained by how easily they could drop
    outlets via conduit, or did not want to incur the much higher cost of
    running AC drops. Running ethernet is slightly easier, and does not
    come with many of the same issues as running 120/240VAC.

    So, it allows for more flexibility for large deployments where
    industries are upgrading infrastructure, and do not want to coordinate
    necessary power changes (with their attendant safety and cost issues).

    PoE can be installed and deployed by network monkeys, and you can build
    infrastructure without having to contract out for, or pay for, licensed
    electrical work (not as much as you might have to, anyway). Many of
    these applications are in older buildings, where adding both ethernet
    and electrical would a problem, and not just because it can be
    problematic for both to share the same pathways for too great a distance.

    PoE has limited appeal for the home network, and there are few devices
    destined for the home market that take advantage of it, and most of
    those are at a premium price. Whether or not market pressures change
    that in the future, it hasn't changed much in the last couple of years.

    Your average home application just doesn't hit the sweet-spot for PoE,
    but the cost and headaches associated with retrofitting infrastructure
    in some applications cannot be underestimated.
     
    Clever Monkey, Mar 19, 2007
    #16
  17. Paul Sture

    Stephen Guest


    Whilst I agree we won't see such devices soon, there is no reason why
    it couldn't done. For example, how much power does the average printer
    actually use during the day? Let's assume a small laser printer, which
    peaks at about 500W. If it were to be possible to run this printer
    from PoE, it would have to store electrical energy to be able to use
    it when required. At 12W from PoE, it would be possible for the
    printer to store, say about 250Wh. This means that even a 500W laser
    printer could be used continuously for about half an hour, before it
    would have to be left to build up energy reserves again.

    I dare say there are all sorts of devices that have intermittent usage
    patterns like printers and scanners that could be powered in this way,
    if there was a demand for it.
     
    Stephen, Mar 19, 2007
    #17
  18. The real question is, what do we gain by doing this? An item like a
    laser printer obviously benefits from being plugged into the wall. It
    can then operate on any sort of reasonable duty cycle you like, without
    restriction (or restrictions on doing things like running a laser).
    What do we gain (i.e., no power source other than ethernet) with respect
    to what we lose (the ability to print upon demand at any duty reasonable
    cycle)?

    There may be a special application that requires a full laser printer
    (perhaps with some restrictions on how it can be used) that is divorced
    from wall power, but I'm at a loss to think of a really good one.
    Mobile ID printers, maybe, but those end up being kiosks that can be
    wheeled to a power point (and, of course, ethernet, if you need that
    anyway).

    I suspect such devices might be pretty specialized, in which case PoE
    might or might not be necessary to that application, or might want
    /both/ PoE and wall current operation (so that they can be run less
    restrictively). Either way, I sense this would increase the cost of the
    item quite a bit.

    I guess I don't see the advantage of such a networked printer for
    light-duty work. I'm also not entirely convinced one could get a a
    half-hour of constant printing from an 11W line. Laser printers often
    idle at 17W or so (though some have much deeper power cycles than that).

    Maybe really low-duty printing could be supported, where the PPM is some
    small number that is acceptable to the application.
     
    Clever Monkey, Mar 19, 2007
    #18
  19. Paul Sture

    Wes Groleau Guest

    Although in general it doesn't sound very useful to me,
    I might be amenable to something that would reduce the
    number of tangled up tails in my herd of computers,
    printers, and other peripherals.
     
    Wes Groleau, Mar 20, 2007
    #19
  20. Paul Sture

    Stephen Guest

    I never said it was a good idea, simply that it was possible, and if
    such a printer was available it clearly wouldn't suite everyone.
    Most newer laser printers have a lower power standby state. The
    additional draw back of this is the amount of time it takes for the
    printer to become ready to print, once woken up. The fact is it is
    possible. As I said, it could store power whiilst not in use, and use
    that power when required. as long as it averages no more than 250Wh of
    usage per day. It should have been obvious that to do this it would
    require to contain rechargeable batteries.
    Exactly, it wouldn't suite everyone.
     
    Stephen, Mar 20, 2007
    #20
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