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Thinkpad T42p suddenly shuts down

Discussion in 'IBM Thinkpad' started by davec, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. That's good. I'm assuming the CPU seldom goes dangerously high, then, or
    that the BIOS will shut it down, also, if it gets too close to max.
    Back in the '70s, when I did more messing around with electronics, we used
    mica wafers, not for shimming, but for insulating the cases or tabs of power
    transistors from their heatsinks, which were usually at ground. Mica is a
    mineral, as you know, and its heat transfer quality is (or seems to be)
    excellent. Do you think this would work as well as (or better than) copper?
    How about reducing hardware acceleration? Would that help?
    Yuck. Well, the Newegg 'puter was just a T60, not a T60p, or if it was a p,
    it was left off in the ads.

    If I'd had a credit card, I'd have gone into debt. :) This was a refurb,
    which probably meant being cleaned up from where the customer played with it
    and didn't like it, so sent it back. It came with a docking station, too.
    I think I paid ~$90 for the docking station for my R51.
    OIC. Wonder if ATI would've been a better choice for graphics.
    Ouch. Well, that's the pits. There's some *great* prices, especially this
    cloose to Christmas, on DDR3 laptop memory. Oh, well...
    My plan is to get a monitor that's wide enough to give me the height I have,
    now. Unfortunately, that means that this computer desk, from the late '80s,
    early '90s, won't work, because it's got a "hole" for a 4:3 monitor of a
    decent size. Fortunately, I do have a desk in the bedroom that I bought
    ages ago. It doesn't have a hutch, however, but has a moitor "shelf" all
    the way across, so I can stick the monitor right square in the middle of the
    thing if I need to. I'm just going to have to tear the system down one day,
    and find me some muscle to help me switch desks.
    :) Didn't realize they'd named it that, but yes, it fits. I've learned
    never to say "never", because as soon as I do, I'll have to eat my words.
    :) Seriously, though, it's too bad that people figure they have to lie.
    It's so common these days, though, that those of us who don't lie can
    sometimes get extra credit for being honest.
    Since I don't do high-end graphics, that wouldn't bother me too much. So,
    I'd probably not run out of memory with 3GB in the machine. Heck, I haven't
    run out of it on the R51 with 2GB on it, but I don't have the option of
    going with a 64-bit OS, either.
    That would put it too far away for me, so I'd have to do the separate
    monitor thing.
     
    Tom Rutherford, Dec 2, 2011
    #21
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  2. davec

    ~misfit~ Guest

    I would assume so. However Intel CPUs since the late P4s[*] have a
    self-throttling feature so it's not absolutely needed in the BIOS. Still,
    knowing IBM's work, it's likely there as well. The IBM hardware ACPI chip
    monitors.... nine temps on this T60 (CPU, APS, PCM, GPU, BAT1, BAT2, BUS,
    PCI and PWR, don't ask me what they all mean) and I *think* that it treats
    all temps the same way w/r/t switching of the fan and safety cut-off.

    [*] Early P4s would just shut off if the thermal diode on-chip reported a
    certain temp. Later Intel chips will in fact throttle the CPU speed, having
    several 'trigger temps', with only the highest signalling shut-down.
    Certainly that R51 of yours has more than just the shut-off. You're lucky in
    that your machine already has the 'Dothan' revision of the Pentium M, it's
    much more powerful and efficient per clock than the first, 'Banias' version
    (which was still streets ahead of the P4). R51s came out with both but
    luckilly, an R51 factory-fitted with a Banais *can* be upgraded to a Dothan,
    as I found out when I was running an R51. :)
    Actually mica is a terrible heat-transfer material (over 400 times less
    efficient than copper) and was mainly used for the fact that it was a stable
    electrical insulator at high temperatures. These days they use a 'plastic'
    rubbery-grey pad which is a stable electrical insulator as well as being a
    good thermal conductor. Somewhat similar to the pad that's used for ThinkPad
    GPUs, only with better tear-resistance.
    No, not really. The GPUs produce significant heat just idling. It's an
    unfortunate fact that, although ThinkPads used the latest CPUs they used
    GPUs that were, in general, about two 'generations' old[**]. It's assumed
    that IBM did this as the GPU industry was known to rush new products to
    market, often complete with flaws. Unfortunately, by playing safe, IBM
    ensured that the majority of the time the biggest heat-source of it's
    discrete-GPU machines was the GPU, which wasn't cooled as well as the CPU...

    [**] For instance, in this T60 the CPU is made using a 65nm 'process
    technology' while the GPU is made with 90nm technology. That might not sound
    like a huge difference but it's three years development or more. The later
    Pentium 4s were made using 90nm fabrication. Likewise with ATI-equipped
    R51s, CPU 90nm, GPU 150nm. You get the picture...
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 7, 2011
    #22
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  3. This is all good. Looks like I did better than I realized! :) And, the
    major problems I have with the thing, now, is that it's too old to do
    everything I want it to do. But that's not *its* fault. :) I do assume
    that the CPU will only throttle itself after the fan speed has maxed out and
    the CPU is still getting hotter. For most of what I do, the only time I
    hear the fan at maximum speed is during POST. Most of the time, it's either
    on the lowest setting, or right on the cusp between the lowest two.
    Okay. That would explain why the wafers were so thin. I used to grease up
    the device, grease up the heatsink, then slap a wafer on the device and
    apply it to the heatsink. I'm going to have to look for some of those pads
    to keep on hand. I've got four of the phase change type, but they'd be
    lousy for shimming. :)

    Okay. Gotcha. Nice to know that I emulate IBM, in a way, without even
    knowing it. :) Typically, when I build a desktop computer, I'll stick
    pretty close to tried-and-true technology. F'rinstance, when I built my
    first Winderz box, the Athlons were just out, and I used a K6. I originally
    built this one in 2005, and I think the Core Duos and the AMD equivalents
    were out there, and I used a Barton core Athlon XP. When I updated it in
    2007 (when I crunched my second Barton core processor trying to get the
    heatsink perched on it the right way to best cool it), I went with an
    Opteron, even though I could've probably used a quad core chip. The thing
    there, though, was partially because I didn't want to buy new memory,
    already having some that I could use, and DDR3 was just on video cards at
    the time. Now, I could buy DDR3 dirt cheap, and DDR and DDR2 are the
    expensive ones. Sheesh. :)
     
    Tom Rutherford, Dec 8, 2011
    #23
  4. davec

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Heh! Yeah, the Dothan version of the Pentium M is quite an upgrade over the
    Banias. Not only more powerful clock-for-clock but runs cooler with a lower
    vcore. Therefore if you add the ~20% extra work per clock with the ~20% more
    energy efficient you get quite a few more MIPs for your watt.
    Correct. :)
    Heh, that's why it's called POST. Power On Self-Test. The fireware / BIOS is
    checking that the fan functions correctly.
    That's good. Sounds like a Dothan running with good contact between 'sink
    and die, with little or no dust in the radiator fins. ;-)

    (As the machine was designed to first use a Banais CPU when it's using a
    Dothan it has that little bit extra cooling capacity. I have a couple R40s
    and a similar but more radical thing happened with that model; The first
    units were fitted with either a Pentium 4 M or a Celeron based on the P4.
    Then the Pentium M came along and IBM started making them with a different
    motherboard so that they could use it, but left the cooling (and most
    everything else) the same. I have a nice wee 14" R40 that is maxxed out
    CPU-wise to a 1.7GHz Banais (unfortunately they won't take a Dothan) and the
    fan is almost never heard. They have two 'fan openings' at the back left
    corner by the hinge, one on the side, the other on the back (like a T60) and
    natural airflow seems to take care of most cooling needs (unless I'm really
    working the CPU).

    [snips]
    Aint that always the way? I built a few machines around the Barton CPU, for
    myself and also back then I used to build desktops for friends who were into
    gaming. I managed to get my hands on four of the unlocked Barton 2500+ CPUs
    just a month before AMD started locking them and they all overclocked quite
    well, with two of them running to XP3200+ speed with no vcore increase. :)

    I still have the last desktop machine that I built for myself as, after I
    went to laptops (mainly to save power) I would have been lucky to get half
    of what I put into it back and it's still a grunty machine. (Intel QX9650 in
    a quality ASUS mobo, loaded with DDR2 RAM....) I have it set up with four
    removable SATA bays so I can 'rationalise' and consolidate the data that
    gets written to external USB - SATA docks from the laptop/s. It's much
    (much) faster moving large amounts of data via SATA than it is doing it
    through USB.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a
    cozy little classification in the DSM."
    David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
     
    ~misfit~, Dec 21, 2011
    #24
  5. Nice! The energy efficiency would mean more to me if the battery weren't 6
    years old, hence pretty ragged out, but it is still nice to know. I swear,
    one of the laptops I have around here is going into a robotics project if I
    ever get sufficiently motivated to play with the idea, and efficiency is
    going to really matter, then.
    Peachy. :)
    Yep! :)
    And, I haven't really done much to clean it out, either. Nothing, to be
    honest with you. :) I just use it a few times a year, though, and the
    rest of the time, it's in a case. The most I used it on a continuous basis
    was the two months I spent rebuilding this desktop in '07. I had it docked,
    and monitor, trackball, scanner, etc., etc., connected to the dock. That's
    when I found out how nice XP was, even compared to Win2KPro.
    That's always nice when a manufacturer does that. :)
    Cool. :) I had a 2800+, but never tried to overclock it, because it was
    running so flippin' warm, anyway. I hate those things! It's like trying to
    balance an anvil on a sugar cube surrounded by Rice Krispies, without
    chipping the sugar cube or pulverizing the puffed rice. The Socket A was
    just nasty. Now, the way they made the Socket 939 was a lot better. The
    heatsink is just naturally kept level when locking it down, plus the surface
    of the chip is level, edge to edge, not this little die sticking up near the
    middle with little "chiplets" scattered around it. Being legally blind, I
    do most of the work of building computers by touch, and it's nearly
    impossible to get that Barton core cooled without mashing something. And,
    at ninety bucks a pop, the sphincter factor was pretty high.
    Nice. When I build my next desktop, or if I decide to go with a
    desktop-replacement laptop, this computer will probably become either a
    fileserver or a hardware firewall, probably Linux based, either way. The
    box I built in 2000, I "freecycled". I hope the folks I gave her to took
    good care of her.
     
    Tom Rutherford, Dec 21, 2011
    #25
  6. davec

    MOzark

    Joined:
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    Same scenario for me. Took fan out, reinserted, and this time, I seated it firmly. AND ... put the 3 screws back in the fan assembly. Works perfectly, now!
     
    MOzark, Jun 27, 2012
    #26
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