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Trouble booting now totally out of service

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Robert Heiling, Jun 12, 2005.

  1. Robert Heiling

    kony Guest

    That's not a very high quality board, though it might be
    sufficient for a couple years use. It isn't KT133 though,
    it's the integrated-video version of it. That may be fine,
    windows may make the minor changes (which are only device
    names, functionally it's the same chipset plus the video),
    but I'd think it might be better to go with the KT133A since
    you don't need the integrated video.


    You might Google for reviews and tech specs of that board,
    though usually they'd use the same southbridge. The picture
    shows ATA100 sticker on it, probably that means the 686B
    southbridge. You can simply read the markings on your
    current board's southbridge to determine which it is.

    Some specs are often omitted by sellers. Some even by
    manufacturers on their product pages, especially with the
    cheap, lesser supported boards. IMO, you'd be better off to
    keep looking for a better brand of board, as boards this old
    have alread depreciated, a better board shouldn't cost much
    more. Even so, I expect the board would work... but I'd
    check on a bios update on Biostar's site, I would not want
    to run a cheap(ly supported) board on an early bios version.

    Board is 4X AGP, it'll support your present card.
    Usually means an old retired box had a board that still
    worked- it's used most often, and probably used a lot.
    It could even have caps that are failing already but not
    completely dead.

    I wouldn't buy an old pull, not after this much time has
    passsed since it was new. Pull could equal refurb, but I'd
    be inclinded to think a pull was less desirable than a
    refurb.

    I would keep looking... not a very good board for multiple
    reasons mentioned.
     
    kony, Jun 16, 2005
    #21
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  2. Thanks for that feedback. I had been feeling rather queasy about it already and that clinches it. There was
    almost another site that had that board also, but the site didn't work so there are no other better sources
    for that same Biostart mb. The MSI MS-6340M simply isn't available and Abit & Asus don't seem to have made an
    equivalent. Gigabyte made a GA-7ZMMHC which would do the job, but the only one I've seen (Baber) was priced
    at $97. I think I'm going in circles, so I probably should drop it for awhile. Since that Biostar availablity
    came up just last month, maybe I should just check periodically to view the changing scenery.

    In the meantime, I've set the system up on my workbench where I can put some decent light on it instead of a
    flashlight. Realizing that I hadn't swapped out the new AGP card to see if it had failed, I swapped the old
    ATI Radeon back in and all behavior is identical unfortunately. Just saw that monitor info might be helpful
    and it's a very old Gateway Vivitron 1776 CPD-17F13

    State | Power consumption| Required Resumption time | Power Indicator| Power Saving Indicator

    Normal op| 100% | none | green on | orange off
    Suspend | ~10% | ~3 sec | green on | orange on
    Active-off| ~6% | ~10sec | green off| orange on

    What I observe on the monitor is that the screen stays dark and the orange led is on steady, but the green
    led comes on for a few seconds (~5-10), goes of for a few, then back on and repeats the pattern. The green-on
    periods are the longer length since the system has been on some time. Pressing the front panel reset has no
    effect on the led state. If we explained that previous behavior of not booting until warmed up by a vented
    capacitor instead of cracked solder, could the current behavior be explained the same way by a capacitor
    gradually building up a charge and then losing the charge because of the venting damage? But again, those
    time periods are close to the chart, so maybe that's what's going on, but the computer is definitely
    triggering it somehow.

    Sure hope you haven't got tired of all these questions! :)

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jun 16, 2005
    #22
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  3. Robert Heiling

    kony Guest

    On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:34:33 -0700, Robert Heiling

    It would simply be explained by a slightly different output
    timing of the video card's bios display (monitor signal)
    then failing since the board itself isn't posting. Nothing
    to be dwelling on, it is a bit irrelevant at this point.
     
    kony, Jun 17, 2005
    #23
  4. Noted! and many thanks again for all of the knowledgeable help you've been giving me. You've given me what I need
    to know with this motherboard situation and I'll let you know how it all works out in the end.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jun 17, 2005
    #24
  5. Sorry to bug you again on this, but I'd like your opinion if you would please. I've located another board
    that fits all my specs - MSI built, Socket A, KT133, AGP, mATX, 200MHz FSB, etc and I can use my PC133
    memory. They claim the boards are OEM overstock or pulls. Boards like this are pretty old and the technology
    is outdated I would think, so the ones I've previously seen were priced from ~$20-$32. In this case, they're
    asking $80 and claim that they will have no trouble selling them at that price. Who would buy them except
    people in the same boat as I am with a failed motherboard? What do you think about that $80 price? Maybe I'm
    just being too conservative.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jun 25, 2005
    #25
  6. Robert Heiling

    kony Guest


    $80 is a bit overpriced, they might not've cost that much at
    many vendors when brand new and modern technology. I can't
    help but think the whole reason they still have them is
    because nobody pays $80 for it these days. Even so, this
    can be what happens to older hardware- the lowest cost
    vendors sell out and so on, till online the high-priced
    options remain.

    "Overstock or pulls" is a pretty big difference though...
    No way I'd pay $80 for a pull today.

    Here's one for $40, there may be others if you look around
    the 'net.
    http://www.targetpcinc.com/Details.asp?ItemID=2485&Res=2

    I"m not claiming it's a great board, but rather I have no
    experience with it and generally avoid Chaintech. Even so,
    $40 less with option to return it if it doesn't work right
    seems a worthwhile risk.


    Then again, it could be time to bite the bullet and upgrade
    the whole system, or at least a newer motherboard and some
    DDR memory. This is also another reason it's good to avoid
    mATX cases- as there were more KT133 full ATX boards at the
    time, and still a few more today.
     
    kony, Jun 25, 2005
    #26
  7. Robert Heiling

    CBFalconer Guest

    Please control your linelength. Lines should not exceed 72 chars,
    and a 65 limit is better. I reformatted this.

    Why get an inferior MB? Directron.com has complete 450 Mhz
    systems, with HD, CPU, Video, Networking, Audio, DVD, case, PS
    available for USD 69. The one I got even has ECC capabilities, but
    not ECC memory.
     
    CBFalconer, Jun 25, 2005
    #27
  8. I completely agree. I've recently been having an intermitant problem
    with this Netscape in that regard and haven't had the time to
    troubleshoot it. It has been set at 72 for an eternity.
    I wish I had all that extra time on my hands. :)
    Oh! I see! Go *all the way* and get an inferior system?
    You really must be kidding me and I can take a joke, but I'll sell you
    the working P-233 mmx in my garage that this one replaced for even
    less than that. For only the price of a replacement motherboard, I can
    use my own case, AGP board, 1/2 gig of PC133 memory, Athlon 1MHz,
    CPU, WD disk drives, etc. Why in the world would I want to buy your
    ancient system at any price?

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jun 26, 2005
    #28
  9. Thanks for the confirmation.
    Thanks! That's a good one and I don't know how I missed it. It
    looks good and they have a standard 90 day warranty and the
    other outfit gave only 30 days. I've emailed them to see if the
    boards are new, refurb, used, etc? Probably won't hear now until
    Monday, but I'll order it unless the response is bad news.
    I agree. That name is a turnoff though and reminds me of
    I had been looking around for a bundled cpu & motherboard, Intel
    or Athlon, that would take my PC133 when I found that other one
    on a side track. In the final anlysis, I could just simply go
    out and buy a new system, but this one is entirely adequate for
    my wife's purposes and anything faster is simply overkill.

    Thanks again!

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jun 26, 2005
    #29
  10. An email came today to let me know that the boards are _new_ OEM. It's
    sort of funny because they also added that info to the website and in
    *red*.<g> In any case, I ordered that board and I'll let you know how
    it all works out after I finish the job and my wife has her computer
    back.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jun 28, 2005
    #30
  11. and yet another question! As mentioned in another post, I ordered the Chaintech board above that you found at
    TargetPC, it has arrived, and I've got everything apart and am ready to drop the cpu & memory into the new board
    and install it. However, before I do .....

    The new board is the CT-7AIA and has a KT133 (note: not a KT133A) chipset and Socket A. Its included manual says:
    "Supports AMD Socket A processors up to 950MHz". My cpu is 1000Mhz (1GHz and I read on another review site of a
    different board that: "As with any other Socket A based board, the issue of CPU multiplier selection is locked
    after by the CPU itself with an internally locked multiplier."). I've been so used to seeing the websites give
    Socket A claims of up to 1.2GHz & 1.5GHz that I didn't realize that the TargetPC site didn't mention cpu speed at
    all. In fact, my old board, which is also KT133 claims support for 500MHz to 1GHz. Is it possibly the case that
    950MHz was the fastest Athlon out at the time they wrote that manual and that it will actually support 1GHz? or am
    I in trouble?

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jul 8, 2005
    #31
  12. Robert Heiling

    kony Guest

    Yes that is possible.
    Install the CPU, video and memory for the time being.
    When it posts, note what the board reports for CPU.
    If necessary (and possible) adjust bios settings or onboard
    jumpers to accomodate your CPU- keeping in mind that KT133
    (non-"A") does not support 133FSB (I dont recall the
    particularly of your system at this time and I'd deleted the
    original post).

    Install floppy drive and run memtest86 to confirm memory
    stability. Memtest86 will display the CPU frequency too
    even if the BIOS POST screen misidentifies the CPU. Trust
    memtest86's report over the BIOS report, BUT also you can
    later run a windows CPU ID tool to confirm operational
    frequency. For example, "WCPUID" would tell you, as would
    "CPU-Z", http://www.cpuid.org/download/cpu-z-129.zip
     
    kony, Jul 8, 2005
    #32
  13. Robert Heiling

    CBFalconer Guest

    If you want to be heard on newsgroups, do not use html nor mime
    encoding. They are potentially dangerous, and the better ISPs will
    simply remove them from newsgroup traffic. Usenext is a pure text
    medium.
     
    CBFalconer, Jul 8, 2005
    #33
  14. Then you think it will even run at all in spite of that speed conflict? That's my only real concern! I don't really
    care if it runs at 950Mhz or 1000Mhz, just so it will work. I didn't want to touch the new mb if it wasn't going to
    work and I had to return it.
    This one has a FSB jumper for 100/133. You may be thinking of 266 FSB which I've seen the KT133A supports in the later
    CT-7AIA5 version of this board per: http://www.zen26266.zen.co.uk/CT-7AIA5-page1.htm
    I have the PC133 memory so it shouldn't be a problem.
    Thanks again for the great help. If you give the go-ahead, it should be running sometime tomorrow.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jul 8, 2005
    #34
  15. Try taking out the CMOS battery for a minute then put it back in, that
    will clear out the CMOS RAM. It's just a hunch but it's possible that some
    parameter is in a strange state. If that doesn't work try disconnecting
    the Floppy and the CDROM and see if you can boot off of the disk.
     
    General Schvantzkoph, Jul 8, 2005
    #35
  16. I have previously explained the problem to you, so kindly get off my
    case. I've been posting in newsgroups since the mid-90's and with
    basically this same software and haven't had any complaints until yours.
    Something, and I haven't had time to find out what, is causing my
    newsreader to respond to what it thinks is html. My linewidth output is
    also usually at 72, but since you brought that up, wasn't that to
    accomodate teletype machines? and isn't that all a bit dated like you?

    In any case, I don't take kindly to net nazis like yourself, and don't
    waste much time in flame wars either. So get lost!

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jul 8, 2005
    #36
  17. Thanks for the response, but it's all been hashed out and the board has vented
    capacitors and is toast. I've already got a new replacement sitting here ready
    to install if it will handle my cpu.

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jul 9, 2005
    #37
  18. Robert Heiling

    kony Guest

    Mostly likely it will run at the correct frequency but
    merely not be able to make a positive ID on the CPU. It may
    correctly display the operational speed, or may display
    something *wrong*. For this reason it is necessary to
    confirm the speed with alternate methods as mentioned
    previously. It is least likely that it would run at 950
    instead of 1000MHz. More like it would not POST at all, but
    the odds are it will.

    I cannot guarantee it, but think it is worth trying. If
    there is a newer bios available you might want to update the
    bios, particularly if the board has a relatively early bios
    version. This may combat other bios issues in additon to
    CPU identification.

    "In general" such boards did support 1GHz CPU, within the
    limit of the [no support for 133FSB with non-'A' KT133] it
    was the issue you mentioned that they simply didn't have
    that speed yet when the spec for the board was produced- and
    with lesser board brands/support, they may not update their
    specs for it later, and sometimes won't even fully disclose
    the changes a particular bios incorporates if there's even a
    newer bios available. After flashing a bios, clear CMOS.

    No, KT133 non-"A" does not actually support 133FSB. It does
    not matter if it has a jumper. Other non-supportive boards
    also had such a jumper. Via originally had intended to be
    able to get KT133 running up to 133FSB, but wasn't able to
    and shipped out the chips they had at the time. LATER they
    got 133FSB working right and this was the distinction of
    KT133A.

    Not so easy to assume, the board itself can be an issue even
    when memory is spec'd higher, especially when a board looks
    up SPD info and finds a module spec'd for (as an example)
    CAS3 @ 133MHz but CAS2 @ 100MHz. In such cases there is the
    potential for it to still be running the memory at most
    aggressive CAS timing possible. Resolution if there were
    this kind of problem is obviously different memory, or
    manually setting a higher CAS #, or other things we need not
    delve into at this time.
     
    kony, Jul 9, 2005
    #38
  19. Robert Heiling

    CBFalconer Guest

    My, you are a surly one. I was really mean to explain some of the
    facts of life to you. Do you really think I keep a list of silly
    html posters who have been told the facts and responded with ugly
    noises? You might consider that the cause of the message was the
    appearance of the silly html, not your identity. After that you
    might ponder on who placed that html on usenet in the first place.

    However, if you have been doing this since the mid 90s, you do
    appear to be fairly slow on the uptake.
     
    CBFalconer, Jul 9, 2005
    #39
  20. You draw the reaction your posts deserve.
    If you weren't being a childish net-nazi, you wouldn't have to worry about any
    of that.
    You might someday wake up to the fact that it's sop to place 'OT" or similar
    in the subject header when you post something that has nothing whatsoever to
    do with the subject at hand? Then again, you've had long enough to learn, but
    your rudeness seems to prevail..
    How about the Usenet rule limiting sigs to 3 lines. Guess you're too good for
    those rules also eh? and how about pmfji? I didn't see that either. You
    obviously need to get a life badly. :-(

    Bob
     
    Robert Heiling, Jul 9, 2005
    #40
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