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TV and PC

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Guest, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Is there an easy way to send tv programs over a network. Something like


    TV -------- PC1 with TV-tuner-card (hardware
    encoding?) ------LAN-------other PC2

    Is this possible? Any ideas or things to pay attention to? System
    requirements of PC1? Etc...
     
    Guest, Nov 20, 2003
    #1
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  2. Guest

    Bob Day Guest

    Hauppauge WinTV Go card (about $50.00 -- try Best Buy or
    Staples or maybe Circuit City) + Windows Media Encoder (free
    download from Microsoft) + broadband to get decent outgoing
    bandwidth + at least 1GHz CPU + Windows XP + at least
    256 MB memory.

    -- Bob Day
     
    Bob Day, Nov 21, 2003
    #2
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  3. On PC1 the tuner and rendereing
    On PC2 a program to log in via lan to view and control PC1.
    Depending on the OS you have such programs exist.

    Draw back, is your lan fast enough?
     
    Bernard Mercier, Nov 21, 2003
    #3
  4. Guest

    kony Guest

    That won't work most of the time, since the picture is often using an
    overlay that isn't visible at all except on the host's monitor, and
    unless you have some mighty bandwidth on the LAN (Gb or better)) it
    couldn't keep up with the framerate at moderately high resolutions.


    Dave
     
    kony, Nov 21, 2003
    #4
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What *will* work then. It's ok if the resolution is awful and the resolution
    sucks.
    I was thinking like: 730MB for a decent DivX-encoded movie, so the LAN has
    like 90 minutes to send 730MB. Very feasable. Of course DivX encoding takes
    a lot of time, so that's out of the question. But still I was hoping for
    some other solution (hence my question in the above scheme: hardware
    encoding?)
     
    Guest, Nov 21, 2003
    #5
  6. Guest

    ck26 Guest

    What *will* work then. It's ok if the resolution is awful and the
    resolution
    How about one of those video sender thingies to send from TV to other TVs
    and monitors so that way you are doing it wirelessly and won't be stuck at
    some sort of hardware bottleneck either.
     
    ck26, Nov 21, 2003
    #6
  7. Guest

    kony Guest

    Well I may have jumped to conclusions about what was meant by
    "rendering"... You can't just "view" the remote system's desktop and
    see the video if an overlay, or see it at 25-30FPS if it isn't an
    overlay, that is too great a datarate. Even if the video playing on
    the "server" system was compressed, it isn't being transferred over
    the LAN as such through the remote control program.

    If you instead used the remote-control program only for initiating the
    video steam, changing channels and such, then it's possible.

    Using a steaming, moderate to high compression codec like DIVX, a
    common 100Mb LAN would be more than fast enough. It's not out of the
    question to do Divx, the question is how, if it's possible, to set it
    up to stream.

    I had an Athlon XP220 doing realtime Divx capture at 640x480 w/MP3
    audio, didn't try to underclock it to find the minimum perforomance
    level necessary, but that's a suggestion for a minimal performance
    target if you wanted streaming Divx, if you can find a way to stream
    it. It might be good to assume there would be additional performance
    needed for the streaming though.

    You will probably need to do this backwards, find the streaming
    solution you want to use and THEN determine what it's compatible with,
    and THEN determine the system specs needed to do it.

    Why not just put a tuner card in the remote system(s)?


    Dave
     
    kony, Nov 21, 2003
    #7
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What streaming options do I have? :/
    The only place we have TV-coax-cable is where the TV set is currently
    standing. 10 feet away is a table with the wireless 54g router on it and
    printer connected to a LAN port of the router. Since I was planning to get a
    new computer, I was searching for uses for the old one. I thought of placing
    it under the TV table, connecting it to the TV and to the router somehow,
    and watching some tv upstairs, or at least getting an idea of what show's
    are on :)

    I have no experience in PC-TV linking/hardware/software or streaming. So I
    came for help here...
     
    Guest, Nov 21, 2003
    #8
  9. Guest

    ECM Guest

    I'm not sure whether you want to encode AND stream realtime, or just
    encode, THEN stream.... The latter could be accomplished with any ATI
    or Hauppage VIVO card encoding realtime into MPEG2 - it's really quite
    good quality; you will have control over the bitrate, down to about
    1170 Mbit/min. The file sizes would be about 0.5-1 Gbyte/hour. That'd
    be about VCD quality; good enough for some (but still very
    blocky/blurry - I'd suggest a low DVD rate like 3000 mbit/min). You'd
    have to find some kind of serving software; you could "publish" your
    video to an intranet website, then serve it with your desktop to the
    client computer as a streaming video.

    However - I note that you have WiFi 54G - don't expect it will be fast
    enough to stream any reasonable video at all - the actual transfer
    rate isn't 54 Mbit - it's more like 22 Mbit total. You'd need at least
    a 100 Mbit wired connection to stream a reasonable video. You could
    encode (using something like tmpeg, I guess? I don't know) into the
    Microsoft Media format; at about the 128-512 Kbit/sec (ie ISDN to low
    broadband) setting it might stream ok.... but it'll be very small on
    your screen!

    Good luck in your search!
    ECM
     
    ECM, Nov 21, 2003
    #9
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm not sure whether you want to encode AND stream realtime, or just
    I found this in a Hauppage FAQ:

    http://www.hauppauge.com/html/stream.htm

    Comments on this? Will it work? Possible problems?
     
    Guest, Nov 21, 2003
    #10
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Guest, Nov 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Guest

    ECM Guest

    I think this might (as long as it's stable software) work fine to help
    encode your captures to Windows Media format, but you'd still need to
    publish them to your intranet. This software from Hauppage doesn't
    encode then stream at the same time - I'm getting the feeling that
    this is really what you want.... it IS tempting - watching TV on your
    WiFi Tablet or laptop PC anywhere in the house you want to. The
    technology isn't up to the challenge yet, though. We'll need
    gigabit(or at least 100 Mbit async) WiFi, and some serious software
    and hardware development before this'll happen.

    Good luck! If you find a solution, post it - I'd be curious as to what
    you eventually find....
    ECM
     
    ECM, Nov 23, 2003
    #12
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This I don't understand.

    Encoding a TV signal in real time is possible, the hauppage card does it.
    Sending data across a 100Mb network should be enough too. I don't see why
    technology isn't up to the challenge yet.
     
    Guest, Nov 23, 2003
    #13
  14. Guest

    ECM Guest

    Well, I think you could stream VCR quality (352X240, 30fps) across a
    wired 100 mbit network - that's about SVCD quality. My comment was
    that a wireless network, even 802.11g (or .11a), would not be adequate
    for that kind of bitrate.

    I think we'll have to see what the next 5 years holds for wireless LAN
    - I'm not sure we'll see much of an increase in data transfer rates.
    Remember that a lot of the bitrate increases we saw in the 90's (for
    instance with modems) was due to better hardware compression BEFORE
    transmission, not to more raw data being transmitted through the same
    pipe. Video is already pretty optimally compressed - try "zip"ing an
    MPEG file sometime - and it won't respond to this strategy. We need a
    quantum shift in technology to be able to effectively stream high
    quality video wirelessly, not tweaking of the current stuff.

    And as for software, it usually is developed in response to available
    hardware. The hardware is not really up to the task yet, so very
    little software is available to do what you want. Even the "bleeding
    edge" types wouldn't spend a lot of money on technology that would
    allow them a small blocky picture with lots of pauses on $2000+ worth
    of equipment, when they can turn on a sub-$100 TV and get a far
    superior image.....

    Anyways, an interesting thread!
    Good Luck!
    ECM
     
    ECM, Nov 28, 2003
    #14
  15. Guest

    kony Guest


    We don't really need any of that.
    All that's needed with current technology to achieve better than VCR
    quality is a server-side app that can use a conexant chipset card as
    input, compress to divx and stream it, and a client-side app
    "expecting" the format details communicated to it by the server app,
    so it can pick up the stream at a keyframe.

    Current CPUs sold are fast enough, 10Mb lan as well as 802.11g is fast
    enough, even 802.11b is "almost" fast enough for 640x480 at reasonable
    bitrate, a few dropped frames if the signal is degraded. The
    applications just aren't there yet.

    There really isn't any good reason to use SVCD unless you need to play
    it in a modern DVD player. The other codecs can have increased
    bitrate if that level of quality is desired, but bitrate chosen as
    necessary to fit the available network. Old systems benefitted from
    hardware-compression cards but today higher quality can be had (and
    more control over it) with software compression. It's just not
    something that could be done with a system that's slow, therefore
    being semi-retired but expected to do this demanding task.


    Dave
     
    kony, Nov 28, 2003
    #15
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