usb drive question

Discussion in 'Dell' started by pemo, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. pemo

    pemo Guest

    hello,
    i have a dell latitude cs operating win95.
    i have a usb 2.0 memory stick with files i would like to put on the laptop.
    when i plug the memory stick into the laptop's usb port, nothing happens.
    the drive is not listed when opening "my computer". tried "add remove
    hardware" search with mem stick plugged in hoping laptop would "find" it,
    but no go. i searched device manager, and i see pci univeral serial bus
    listed but is marked with yellow exclamation. states drivers are not
    installed. laptop can not connect to internet presently. where/ how can i
    get a driver for this issue? would win95 disk have this driver?
    any assistance would be appreciated, thanks in advance,
    peter
     
    pemo, Oct 10, 2007
    #1
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  2. pemo

    Rob Guest

    I thought WIN95 didn't support USB2.0. Didn't Windows 98SE support this?

    Rob
     
    Rob, Oct 10, 2007
    #2
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  3. pemo

    Ben Myers Guest

    The manufacturer of the memory stick is responsible for providing drivers for
    it. If the manufacturer has a driver for Windows 98, you are also nearly 100%
    sure that it will work with Windows 95. Go to the web site of the manufacturer
    to see if a Windows 95/98 driver is available for it.

    One other caveat: Because the memory stick was designed for USB 2.0, it may not
    work at all on an older laptop with a USB 1.0 or 1.1 port. USB 2.0 provides
    for MUCH faster data rates than USB 1.1. In addition, it allows USB devices to
    draw more power from the USB port than USB 1.0/1.1 devices. If your memory
    stick draws too much power, it will not work. Odds of this are small, but the
    older the computer is, the more likely it is to happen... Ben Myers
     
    Ben Myers, Oct 10, 2007
    #3
  4. pemo

    ric Guest

    Yup, Win95 doesn't do USB. 95b purported to, but to all practical
    intents and purposes did not work. I don't care how much people moan
    that this is wrong, and actually it did work with USB - from long,
    bitter and very practical experience it wasn't worth messing with.
    Win98SE finally added good USB support. No, there's no easy patch to
    add this functionality - to get it working you'll want to reinstall
    Windows, at which point you should probably consider putting Win2K on
    it or upping the RAM and putting XP on.

    Ric
     
    ric, Oct 10, 2007
    #4
  5. pemo

    pemo Guest

    thanks to all of you for the replies. actually the reason for the usb stick
    was to put winxp (yes, i'm embarrassed to admit it is a cracked version
    from a friend) onto the laptop. i understand the issues you all have
    addressed. i will try to search for a win98 driver and see if that will
    work. that's about as deep as i will try to dig for now. again thank you for
    the replies.
    peter
     
    pemo, Oct 10, 2007
    #5
  6. pemo

    ric Guest

    Well, possibly. Many *don't* though, so this doesn't really help the
    OP.

    If the manufacturer has a driver for Windows 98, you are also nearly
    100%
    No. No. No. Win95 DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH USB for any reasonable
    definition of "function". It. Will. Not. Work. Trust me on this one.
    I have never seen, and do not believe exist, USB bulk storage devices
    that work with USB2.0 and not with USB1.0. Similarly, there is a
    minimum power standard a USB port can provide and all flash memory
    devices will work with this. I am not aware (and don't believe
    exists) any differences in the power standards defined for USB1.0 and
    USB2.0. Ergo, USB2.0 or not makes no difference in this case.
    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power for a good overview.
     
    ric, Oct 10, 2007
    #6
  7. pemo

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    An oversimplified explanation is that Windows 95 simply does not have
    any USB support.

    The last OEM Service Release (OSR 2.5) for Windows 95 took place in
    1997 and did include a USB support supplement. If you can find this
    supplement and happen to already have OSR 2.0 (Windows 95 B") on your
    system, you can add the support. It will only work at USB 1.1 speeds,
    however. USB 2.0 will not be supported.

    I still wouldn't expect it to work, however. Microsoft pulled the rug
    out from under Windows 95 and its USB support by changing how drivers
    were written for Windows 98 and later products. Very few people ever
    bothered to make Windows 95-compatible drivers for their USB products.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 10, 2007
    #7
  8. pemo

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    Unfortunately, that's not quite correct. Microsoft added support to
    Windows 98 for WDM (Windows Driver Model IIRC) drivers and didn't
    bother to do so for Windows 95 in any release.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Driver_Model

    Many drivers for USB products are WDM drivers and therefore they do
    not work on Windows 95 systems.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 10, 2007
    #8
  9. pemo

    pemo Guest

    understood. thanks for the info. i'm disappointed, but you all are very
    helpful here.thanks,
    peter
     
    pemo, Oct 10, 2007
    #9
  10. pemo

    wm_walsh Guest

    Hi!
    Sorry for the disappointment, but it's true. :-(

    You can certainly try if you want--the last I knew, the update
    packages were still available for download. Maybe you'd get awfully
    lucky.

    On the other hand, I have to wonder how well Windows XP might run on
    an older system like your laptop. An older version of Windows--such as
    2000 or 98--might be a far better choice and can be found relatively
    inexpensively in this day and age. Personally, I wouldn't trust
    cracked software to run properly or not do something malicious to your
    computer.

    William
     
    wm_walsh, Oct 10, 2007
    #10
  11. pemo

    Colin Wilson Guest

    thanks to all of you for the replies. actually the reason for the usb stick
    If it's only a Win95 laptop, the odds are it'll struggle *really*
    badly with XP - perhaps consider Win2k as an alternative.
     
    Colin Wilson, Oct 10, 2007
    #11
  12. pemo

    Ben Myers Guest

    No, No, No, YOURSELF! The Windows 95B and 95C OEM CD included USB drivers. I
    actually set up some USB gear back in the Windows 95 era. A little flaky, but
    still somewhat functional. Would I want to use it? No, but a cheapskate
    client wanted to, so I did it. Enough said.

    About two years ago, another of my clients tried a USB 2.0 storage device in an
    older IBM Thinkpad which was only USB 1.1 compliant. Did not work, but not for
    lack of drivers for Windows 2000. The device was power starved. There ARE
    differences in the 5v power supplied by USB 1.1 vs USB 2.0. Just for fun, take
    one of these nice little external 2.5" USB disk drives and plug it into an older
    USB 1.1 system. Won't work. Been there. Done that. Enough said.

    And my recollection of these sorts of quirks is goddam good. Enough said.

    .... Ben Myers
     
    Ben Myers, Oct 11, 2007
    #12
  13. Windows 95 is probably hopeless. Windows 98 is a "maybe" ... if you can
    get a 98 driver. Try the manufacturer of the USB flash drive. If it's
    a "no name", you are probably out of luck. There is no single
    "across-the-board" driver. In fact, when you try to do this, you find
    out that superficially identical drives made by the same manufacturer
    may even require different drivers depending on their "internals". I
    discovered that there were, for example, three different "Memorex"
    drivers for various apparently identical (but not really) Memorex 256MB
    flash drives.
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 11, 2007
    #13
  14. Win95 doesn't support USB 2.0, but the drive should be backwards
    compatible to USB 1. That, however, is only the tip of the iceberg.

    In the first place, unless he has Windows 95 OSR2 AND has installed the
    USB upgrade to it (some call this OSR2.5), there is no USB in Windows
    95, at all, of any kind, period.

    IF he did that, he has a crappy, flakey,
    maybe-it-will-work-and-maybe-it-won't USB. The real truth is that USB
    support wasn't really reliable until Windows 98, however even Windows 98
    didn't have the capabilities to support USB mass storage devices (disk
    drives, flash drives and anything that looked like them). You needed a
    unique driver for every single different device.
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 11, 2007
    #14
  15. Re: " No. No. No. Win95 DOES NOT FUNCTION WITH USB for any reasonable
    definition of "function"

    That is going to far. Windows 95 OSR2 with the USB supplement works
    fine with SOME USB devices, but I will agree that it doesn't work with
    all of them by any means, and that with some devices it's USB support if
    FLAKEY. But, with some devices it works just fine. You just have to
    try it with the devices you plan to use.
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 11, 2007
    #15
  16. Not exactly. Windows 98 had the same driver model as Windows 95.
    Windows 98SE (second edition) changed to support WDM drivers, and still
    supported the old driver model as well. A driver for Windows 98 (FIRST
    EDITION) may work with Windows 95, if his version of W95 is OSR 2 with
    the USB supplement. The USB supplement is not that hard to find (in
    fact I have it).
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 11, 2007
    #16
  17. pemo

    S.Lewis Guest


    If it has USB ports and originally came with Win95, then I'm guessing an
    early Pentium II MMX machine or something close to that.

    Egad.
     
    S.Lewis, Oct 11, 2007
    #17
  18. pemo

    S.Lewis Guest


    This should be a Pentium II MMX era machine if it has USB *and* Win95
    installed.........kind of surprised it wouldn't be an OSR 2.5 install to
    begin with.
     
    S.Lewis, Oct 11, 2007
    #18
  19. Ben, I don't believe that there is a power difference in terms of the
    USB 1 and USB 2 specifications. But there are lots of computers,
    especially laptops, that don't supply the maximum power permitted to USB
    ports, and there are lots of USB flash drives that won't work with the
    minimum allowed power.

    What any given system does, or even what quite a few particular systems
    do, is irrelevant to the question of the USB 1 vs USB 2 power specs,
    which I believe are the same. You might also consider that more USB
    devices supply more power (or the maximum power) simply because it's
    about 5 years later, and experience has shown that there is a need for
    such power, and manufacturers are responding to those needs.
     
    Barry Watzman, Oct 11, 2007
    #19
  20. pemo

    pemo Guest

    yes it was going to be an experiment for sure. i thought since the laptop
    was older, and i don't depend on it as a primary machine that i would
    venture a chance. i never tried any hacked software before, and was curious,
    but not enough to try it on any machine of great value. the laptop is
    functioning as a word processor for work situations were the portability is
    useful. it is a pentium II as guessed earlier in the thread, and can run
    AutoCAD fairly well without being annoying. i can produce land survey
    co-ordinates, and record changes to plan details in the field, etc.. i'm
    just the kind of guy who does not toss things aside as they get outdated. i
    try to find usefulness in things until it gets entirely impractical for my
    needs (and patience). too much in the land fills as it is. often america's
    attitude is "throw it out and get a new one" when the slightest changes
    occur in technologies. i do have a win2k disc, so i can bump up to that and
    be quite satisfied with it until it becomes more practical to use the
    machine as a hammer, than as a laptop.
    i enjoyed reading the thread that developed.
    peter
     
    pemo, Oct 11, 2007
    #20
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