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Wearing a suit to an interview is a mild form of hazing

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by BubbaGump, Mar 17, 2007.

  1. BubbaGump

    BubbaGump Guest

    Some companies support a business casual work environment yet require
    professional dress (which I think means a suit and tie) only for
    candidates during a job interview. Some might say this is in order
    for the candidate to give a good first impression, but an impression
    that misrepresents the way the candidate will perform on an average
    work day is unethical for the candidate and useless for the
    interviewer. At the same time the fact that the interviewer (or
    indirectly through his/her recruiters) requires the suit implies that
    the interviewer is either trying to lie to him/herself about the
    candidate's true nature, or that he/she is trying to humiliate the
    candidate, to make the candidate make an extra effort to conform and
    wear something uncomfortable only to please the interviewer.

    No candidate should have to endure this submission, this worship of
    interviewers as false gods. Outward appearances should not be
    emphasized over technical or communication abilities, and those who
    require special dress in order to communicate should not be tolerated
    in the 21st century. The world is sick. The only way it can get
    better is by focusing less on the physical and more on the spiritual.

    Some might say wearing a suit is not a big deal, and that candidates
    should simply do it and forget about it. Look at it from the other
    angle. If it were not a big deal then interviewers would not require
    it. THEY would not care either way.
     
    BubbaGump, Mar 17, 2007
    #1
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  2. BubbaGump

    Mark Walsh Guest

    The attitude he has displayed in this news group probably comes across the
    same way in any interviews.

    I have a small group of engineers working for me. During the summer months
    most of them dress like they are on their way to the beach. But when we
    call on clients, I expect a professional appearance which is sometimes a
    suit and other times business casual.

    I have a talented group of people who display a number of eccentricities I
    have to work around, but rude behavior isn't one of them.

    Bubba's technical competence is irrelevant if no one want to be around him.

    Mark Walsh
     
    Mark Walsh, Mar 17, 2007
    #2
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  3. BubbaGump

    Pete Fenelon Guest

    I give up. Either you're a troll or a complete dickhead who *deserves*
    unemployment. The world works the way it does; not the way you want it
    to. Grow up or piss off.

    pete
     
    Pete Fenelon, Mar 17, 2007
    #3
  4. Even worse, they expect you to actually SHOW UP and DO WORK
    before they'll pay you! Some might say actually working for
    your salary is not a big deal and that employees should simply
    do it and forget about it. Look at it from the other angle. If
    it were not a big deal then emloyers would not require it. THEY
    would not care either way.

    Good luck with those lottery tickets -- I've a feeling you're
    never going to be able to get/keep a job.
     
    Grant Edwards, Mar 17, 2007
    #4
  5. BubbaGump

    Aly Guest

    <SNIP>

    In the nude?
     
    Aly, Mar 17, 2007
    #5
  6. BubbaGump

    Richard H. Guest

    Bah. An employer isn't going to "require" a suit for an interview, but
    the headhunter may tell you otherwise to improve his odds of a
    commission. In the end, interviewing is a competition, and you're
    trying to sell your services.

    Consider this...

    If your "sales pitch" only emphasizes technical skills, you need to be
    remarkably over-qualified to rise above the competition. So, you'd
    always be accepting roles beneath your capabilities, and probably
    earning less than you could.

    In contrast, if you sell the fact that you are technically qualified,
    but you're also professional, methodical, have good industry knowledge,
    a strong work ethic, good interpersonal skills, and don't smell... you
    have a better shot at more challenging roles that will maximize your
    technical skills (earning you more income) and stretch your skills
    (making you more valuable for the next opportunity).


    As a general rule, it's wise to dress 1 or 2 notches above the person
    you're calling on; no more, no less. You want to look a little sharper,
    but not make them feel underdressed. (So, if their dress code is
    business casual, wear a tie or a suit. If it's t-shirts and flip-flops,
    wear business casual or a tie.)
     
    Richard H., Mar 17, 2007
    #6
  7. BubbaGump

    Pete Fenelon Guest

    Exactly. I wear scruff order to work normally, and for informal
    meetings with companies we know well or with suppliers (i.e. if
    FAEs or techies from people we regularly deal with are dropping in).
    If it's the first meeting with an important customer, or if I'm
    going onsite somewhere, I dress at least as smartly as I expect the
    other parties there to be.

    I've had to deal with everything from near-Tourettes to profound
    Aspergers. I've only ever had to deal with one engineer with a chip on
    his shoulder as big as Bubbagump's. He lasted about 18 months in my
    previous company - his perpetual bleat was that he was "being
    systematically deskilled by the intellectual elite" ;)
    Indeed. I wouldn't even be inclined to probe his technical competence if
    his interpersonal performance was as poor as the projection he makes
    here - I suspect that even if his CV didn't immediately strike me as
    being stereotypically passive-aggressive, a phone interview would be
    enough to tell me he wouldn't be someone I'd ever want to hire.


    pete
     
    Pete Fenelon, Mar 17, 2007
    #7
  8. That's brilliant! I've got to remember that one.
     
    Grant Edwards, Mar 18, 2007
    #8
  9. BubbaGump

    larwe Guest

    Oh God, please, bring red-hot pokers for my eyes QUICKLY. I never want
    to see for real the picture of my current workplace that your message
    evoked in my imagination.
     
    larwe, Mar 18, 2007
    #9
  10. BubbaGump

    John Larkin Guest

    I wouldn't hire anybody named BubbaGump no matter how he was dressed.

    And how do you know that anybody "requires" a suit for an interview?

    I figure an interview is mutual, not an act of submission. If *they*
    look good enough, I might let them hire me.
    I've never worn a suit to an interview, and I've turned down more
    employers than have turned down me. Show a little spine, for pete's
    sake.

    John
     
    John Larkin, Mar 18, 2007
    #10
  11. BubbaGump

    robers97 Guest

    Nothing else sends a clearer message that you're interested in the job
    like showing up on time and in formal dress. If you're spiritual
    enough to be ordained, wear a roman collar.
     
    robers97, Mar 18, 2007
    #11
  12. BubbaGump

    charleso Guest

    Dressing smartly to an interview gives the interviewer a clear message
    that you -
    1. Can and will dress smartly when needed (e.g. meeting important
    customers), and
    2. Care enough about this interview and the company to be bothered.

    Sure you might get the job and then turn up the next day in jeans and
    a T-shirt, but that's everyday work and attending a job interview is
    not everyday work.

    - Charles
     
    charleso, Mar 18, 2007
    #12
  13. BubbaGump

    larwe Guest

    It would be more appropriate for BubbaGump to wear an Elizabethan
    collar, so he doesn't salivate on the interviewer. A straitjacket
    might set off the ensemble nicely.
     
    larwe, Mar 18, 2007
    #13
  14. BubbaGump

    Pete Fenelon Guest

    He did claim to be "working class" and "socialist", to be fair. ;)

    We adopted that as a slogan for any routine or dull task - "Would you
    mind reviewing this test spec?" "OH NO!!! I'm being systematically
    deskilled by the intellectual elite!"

    One day I'll tell the story of "My position in this company has become
    untenable!" - he only said that once and it wasn't the day he resigned
    either ;)

    pete
     
    Pete Fenelon, Mar 18, 2007
    #14
  15. Ha ha ha ha ha!!!
    ROTFLMHO!!!

    Guys, seriously, this is the best post in a long time. Thanks Mr. Gump
    for providing much entertainment during my lunch brake!! I bet people
    all around me are wondering what the hell I am grinning at like a good
    trying not to laugh my head off! (they must think I am looking at
    porn....)

    LOL!!!
     
    ElderUberGeek, Mar 18, 2007
    #15
  16. BubbaGump

    Roman Guest

    I haven't been on so many interviews and only on one in western culture
    since I relocated in 1999 from Eastern Europe. Never I have been told
    before interview about any dress code but I did wear suit whenever
    possible, same as for my final exams at the university.

    An interview is a business meeting, you want to look good to them and
    they want to look good to you because there is potential of mutually
    useful relationship.

    My opinion is that most interviewers (or potential business partners)
    would not turn you down for not wearing a suit. Some may give it more
    importance than others depending on job type and interviewer
    personality. It may matter more if you are applying for sales, PM or CEO
    than for software R&D or cable technician positions. But generally good
    appearance does not hurt and can only help your chances.
     
    Roman, Mar 18, 2007
    #16
  17. BubbaGump

    Al Guest

    Not only did my nephew have to wear a business suit to his interview, he
    was told after he was hired that he had to have a minimum of five suits
    in his closet. That was a condition of employment. Then again, he is a
    lawyer.

    ;-)

    I don't even own a suit that fits anymore. I have a coupla sports
    jackets and slacks to match. I only wear them to funerals and weddings.

    When I went for an interview at MIT, I wore my sports jacket and slacks.
    Everyone there, as per custom, was very, very casual. But when I asked a
    friend who worked there what to wear to the interview, he said "suit." I
    got the job and dressed like the rest of them later. The chief scientist
    on many days wore cargo shorts. A lot of the time he looked like he was
    on safari.

    Al
     
    Al, Mar 18, 2007
    #17
  18. I'd find it a bit freaky if somebody showed up for an interview
    in formal dress. A suite (or just jacket) and tie is plenty.
     
    Grant Edwards, Mar 18, 2007
    #18
  19. BubbaGump

    cs_posting Guest

    That's interesting... I don't think anyone would wear a suit for
    finals here.

    On the other hand, senior year I did so many of the little half-hour
    on-campus preliminary interviews, mixed in around my ordinary class
    schedule, that I basically wore a suit all the time for the better
    part of a month.

    I kind of liked it.

    No, I'm glad I don't have to do it, glad I don't have to deal with the
    dry cleaning... but there is something enjoyable about presenting
    yourself as serious.

    Every once in a while I feel like making a tailored anti-static
    jacket ;-)
     
    cs_posting, Mar 18, 2007
    #19
  20. Indeed, and that is why a good rule of thumb for interview dress is to
    dress as well as one will ever need in the course of one's on-the-job
    duties.

    <snip>
     
    Michael R. Kesti, Mar 18, 2007
    #20
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