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What inkjet printer prints the best text?

Discussion in 'PC Hardware' started by B. Schneier, Dec 15, 2007.

  1. B. Schneier

    Frank Guest

    measekite wrote:

    And you're their leader.
    Frank
     
    Frank, Dec 24, 2007
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  2. B. Schneier

    kony Guest

    It seems you are a little beyond reason here, thinking that
    ultimately you are going to judge the way another replies.

    I hope that was a kind, non-abusive, civil manner. If you
    persist in trying to judge the way another replies, it is
    not surprising that people wouldn't be as kind, non-abusive,
    and civil.

    Sometimes, it is wrong to try to sugar coat something that
    shouldn't taste sweet.
    True, face to face the conversation would often turn out
    differently. You'd be mistaken if you feel only my exchange
    in the conversation would have been different. I will in
    fact clearly tell someone when they are irresponsible, when
    their actions have a potential to negatively effect others.
    THAT is far more significant, IMO, than some text on usenet.
    Why not imagine that courtesy is a two way street. When
    someone selectively, probably deceptively brushes aside
    facts, the entire conversation may need to stop and refocus
    until that is addressed. It is equally discourteous in a
    face to face conversation to completely ignore what the
    other person said and disagree with no justification or
    counter evidence. When doing so promotes something that can
    cause problems for others as well, the dialog has already
    sunk below a courteous level.

    Why just imagine, instead of actually looking at the history
    of mankind. Truth, justice, all those grand ideals we
    humans have seldom come nor are maintained with only
    courtesy. Your ideas, when taken out of context, conflict
    with reality.
     
    kony, Dec 24, 2007
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  3. B. Schneier

    kony Guest

    Yes, how dare a person be "combative" instead of agreeing
    with another who shows no real consideration of facts or of
    the impact on others.

    Grow up, this is a conversation. If words make your eyes or
    ears bleed, you have been in isolation a little too long I
    suspect. It is not as though every other word was four
    letters in my replies, and sometimes people need a little
    kick in the pants to get their conversation back on track.
    If I think someone is being less than considerate or
    deceptive, I will state that. They are welcome to elaborate
    on their position, and to stop selectively ignoring evidence
    towards their own agenda.

    When someone tries to always steer a conversation back
    towards a goal instead of taking it as it comes, looking at
    facts instead of ignoring them, it is a dead giveaway that
    there is an agenda.

    Is it always a polite discourse with someone having an
    agenda? No. If that could always be accomplished by being
    polite, what a great thing that would be. When you are
    polite and someone already refuses to discuss facts instead
    _choosing_ to ignore direct evidence, they are either
    mentally defective or choosing to do so.

    Nobody is perfect, if overlooking facts was an oversight, or
    consideration of the impact of something on others wasn't
    thought out, that much can be overlooked. It's when
    something is repeatedly mentioned and still an attempt to
    sweep truth and fact under the rug, that civility has
    already degraded in the conversation.


    Good for you, it's a bit like putting your hands over your
    ears and singing la la la la la.
     
    kony, Dec 24, 2007
  4. B. Schneier

    Taliesyn Guest


    So, for how long have you been a floor salesman at Staples? Is this
    just during the Holiday period that you'll be hawking the printers, or a
    long-term thing?

    -Taliesyn
     
    Taliesyn, Dec 24, 2007
  5. B. Schneier

    Brett Kline Guest


    How many pages per month would be color and what percentage of a page
    would be colored?
     
    Brett Kline, Dec 25, 2007
  6. I just checked the links you mentioned, and I'm not sure I understand
    what you are stating here. The drivers seem to have the same suffix
    (.303130) but the prefixes are different and so are the sizes of the
    files, so I'm not sure they are the same files. My experience with
    scanners is that the firmware can limit what drivers will work, sometime
    to the point of working with only specific serial number groups.

    I looked at the several Visioneer scanners I own (all of which are in
    storage) and none seem to have XP drivers (the 6100, the 3100 and two of
    the paperport MX) that I can find. If you know where they are hiding
    I'd love to know.

    However, I'll also mention that the quality of the scanners left a lot
    to be desired. They suffered from streaking, offset convergence, and
    other problems. I finally bought a Umax, and then got an Epson.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Dec 25, 2007
  7. Many scanners suffer from either plasticizers or volatiles of the
    lubricants vaporizing and redepositing on the bottom surface of the glass.

    Most of them can be opened with care, by removing a couple of screws and
    carefully cleaning the inside surface. Try not to knock the scanning
    bar or moving it, and try to keep dust out and off the mirrors.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Dec 25, 2007
  8. B. Schneier

    kony Guest

    Then let's start with specifics.

    What scanner do you have and what OS are you trying to
    install this on?

    Generally, the most versatile driver is probably the one
    here,
    http://support.visioneer.com/drivers/4400/ENU/4400.303110.EN.exe


    I only spoke of the one I had, you can seek what is
    available here:
    http://support.visioneer.com/


    I had no streaking, or other problems. That certainly
    doesn't mean there are no problem with your particular
    specimens, I can only speak for 3 Visioneer models here, A
    visioneer 4400, Primascan 2600u, and 8100. The Primascan
    2600U has the most hours on it by far, and thus the most
    CCFL wear, it has worse contrast than the other two due to
    this and is most suitable for documents where contrast
    tweaks can be later applied in an imaging app.
     
    kony, Dec 25, 2007
  9. I respect and know Tony well enough from my personal correspondence with
    him, as well as his many post here that I see no reason he would have to
    try to deceive anyone here. I therefore believe his statements are
    level headed evaluations based upon his personal experiences.

    However, I also know that there has been a real backlash to Vista by
    many people. This backlash to Vista was completely predicable, and it
    had only partly to do with Vista itself, per se. I predicted this
    backlash nearly 5 years ago, in fact, I actually communicated that to
    Microsoft back then, before Vista was even called Vista.

    How did I know this? Well, there were a number of issues that told the
    story. The first was that XP works, and it works pretty well. Coming
    from a psychology background, I have a good idea about how people
    respond to change. Change is only voluntarily embraced, especially in
    an established population (meaning people who already have a set of
    skills under their belt) when benefits obviously outstrip risks or
    inconvenience. People were in no rush to change their OS again, finally
    having one that did what they expected of it. Almost every one of us
    has "survived" through one or more OS upgrades. It didn't take a genius
    to know that the same problems were likely to occur again... broken
    drivers, buggy initial release, obsolete peripherals, hours figuring out
    what is broken and what is just "new and different", needing to learn a
    new desktop, conflicts with older software.... etc.

    Then there were the promises: Vista had a difficult gestation and birth.
    Numerous features which were promised never were implemented, or
    failed and had to be removed, the OS was delayed nearly 2 years from its
    first announced release date. This doesn't lead to a sense of trust. A
    lot of Vista's surface improvements are flashy and for show, to help
    sell hardware. A lot of what Vista "can be" requires more cooperation
    with software and hardware manufacturers to embrace the architecture.
    And to make best use of Vista's most valuable abilities, one needs what
    was and may still be "leading edge" technology.

    A lot of the initial backlash was because the early "Vista ready" and
    Vista on board systems could barely run Vista Basic/Home, which offered
    very few improvements over XP and a number of issues. The many versions
    of Vista confused the retailers and the consumers.

    Things are changing slowly. Hardware and software is catching up with
    the feature set Vista Ultimate has built in, and the machines that can
    run the highest version of Vista have come way down in cost. Microsoft
    is fixing the bugs and fleshing out the unimplimented features they
    promised, and many will be made right in SP1.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Microsoft made major errors in their
    original design, marketing and release of Vista. It was not ready for
    prime time when released, and it was ahead of itself as well. I am not
    sure it will ever recover the market it lost by the way they managed
    things, but the OS does work for some people, especially those who
    bought boxes designed around it.

    Vista does have the largest in-box driver set ever offered in a MS OS,
    meaning many peripherals are covered even if the manufacturers did not
    make upgraded stand alone drivers.

    I expect that the reason Vista was received poorly was because the
    release mimicked many of the problems XP had on release and people were
    less willing to forgive Microsoft again after numerous OS releases not
    meeting the hype. The sad part of this is that Vista probably had the
    greatest potential to push the Windows technology forward, had it been
    introduced in a more appropriate manner and advertised to the correct
    demographic.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Dec 25, 2007
  10. Tony and I may both "violate" your sense of Usenet convention, no matter
    which end of the message you tack it on to, doesn't make your point of
    view any more valid.

    People relating their personal experiences, especially when those are
    based upon a wide base and incorporate the experiences of others one
    knows and respects, is not "BS", it is a person expressing their
    authoritative opinion based upon intelligent observation. Just because
    that does not agree with your personal point of view, which seems based
    mainly on the opinions of others you don't know personally, rather than
    experience, doesn't make your statements more valid.

    Yes, a lot of people were dissatisfied with Vista, for many of the
    reasons I expressed in my earlier message, and many more rejected it out
    of hand based upon much of the talk you mention, but Tony is simply
    stating that he is aware of people who have been pleased with the
    product, and that it seems to be fulfilling those people's needs well,
    perhaps meaning the product shouldn't be rejected out of hand, without
    consideration.

    Each of us learn what level of trust and authority we are willing to
    endow people with, and over a period of many months, I have learned that
    Tony provides accurate and verifiable information on the printer
    newsgroup. I have no reason to believe he would suddenly change that
    approach.

    I suspect you do not know Tony's reputation and integrity, and
    therefore, I question why you would decide to challenge the expression
    of his personal experiences, other than that he doesn't necessarily
    agree with you.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Dec 25, 2007
  11. B. Schneier

    kony Guest

    On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:22:15 GMT, Arthur Entlich


    If you can't bother to continue the previous conversation by
    posting in context, your post is wasted.

    Show a little effort, or you have only shown you want to
    sidetrack the topic at hand.


    Is this seriously what you consider reasonable discussion,
    not replying to the context but instead making a speach?

    Sorry, but that is only reasonable in some alternate
    reality. I may reply to your original post, or may not, but
    it doesn't excuse your distraction from the topic.
     
    kony, Dec 25, 2007
  12. B. Schneier

    kony Guest

    Tony may be a geat guy. Personally from my brief exposure,
    I think he may have offered a fair, maybe even large amount
    of help in the past.

    Unfortunately, this is not an issue that is based around
    character. It is not based around your perception of level
    headedness either. It is based on the specific topic and
    facts, and the arguments made when those facts were
    presented.

    Do try to backtrack and see this. It is not a fan club, it
    is a discussion based on fact not loyalty.
    Not just predicable, there were plenty of those who not only
    had an open mind, but had no idea and just bought their next
    system with it installed. This isn't a political issue, not
    a matter of bias.

    Then maybe you were ahead of your time, when someone makes a
    statement like this I would love to accept it at full face
    value, but do appreciate that on usenet, everything must be
    taken with a grain of salt.

    I am not anti-Vista. I am against blanket statements
    without the customer being informed. CBFalconer provided
    very pertinent information and that was brushed aside with
    no justification. I am always offended when someone does
    that, and hope you do see as I do that it is a clear choice
    to ignore facts... because in fact, the issues linked are
    not mostly addressed by patches or SP1, not even close. It
    seems almost insulting that someone makes such a statement
    when clearly it is impossible that they even read the links
    and compared to patches... because there is clearly no
    justification whatsoever for the statement made.

    You may be right on some factors, but did YOU even read the
    links CBFalconer provided?

    No this is not just about change. In addition to issues
    linked, it is about quite higher overhead, bloating of an OS
    already bloated beyond imagination. It is about an extreme
    EULA. It is about extreme cost in a monopoly environment.
    It is about years of delays and even then releasing an OS
    that couldn't even copy a lot of files without severe lag.

    I accept a new OS will have problems. I feel MS has done a
    lot of good in developing an OS so many people find useful.
    That does not make any particular OS ready for mass
    consumption before major bugs are resolved, and someone
    trying to ignore those bugs by stating "oh but WinXP was
    once this bad" is missing a crucial element. We're not
    looking to switch from a mature OS that works (XP today, not
    years ago), based on the sayso of someone who claims it will
    eventually be ok.

    If it will eventually be ok, let's see it happen, THEN make
    the decision. Before that point, having consumers fullly
    informed is important, not having someone like Tony try to
    casually make excuses and claim it's ok, because bugs are:

    REALLY, REALLY NOT OK!
    It is stupidity to promote something new when there is no
    expressed need, when it only offers detriment.

    Granted, we didn't get that far into the conversation before
    everyone with ridiculously sensitive defense of Tony started
    getting upset. Perhaps those people should be considered
    the trolls since they took what could have been an
    intelligent discussion and turned it into a drauma instead.

    Then again, Tony was also choosing not to address the linked
    facts, so by definition we seem to have a conspiracy here
    whether it was intentional or not.


    While some of your points I agree with, the overall concept
    of stating the obvious is not especially useful.

    So yes, I agree with much of what you're writing above and
    below this text, but it isn't especially relevant to the
    issues discussed which were not just a general overview of
    Vista in general.


    That is good for those who have no other avenue for drivers,
    but a bit like cheating others since getting drivers is a
    pretty basic, one-time event for most users, and with the
    more modern FULL drivers one has more features instead of
    the stripped down functionality MS is so renowned for
    limiting.

    That might be one reason, among many reasons more
    significant to other users.

    More significant might be the idea that we should excuse or
    understand or forgive or wait.

    We are not *compelled* to find a reason to use Vista.

    Some people truely do have a good reason and should use it.
    This is a matter of specifics, not overgeneralized bullshit.

    I'm sorry if the term bullshit offends, but when you write
    generic statements then close with the idea that all we're
    focusing on is being convinced to us Vista, you entirely
    miss the bigger picture that we aren't naive customers,
    we're evaluating what is best suited to the jobs at hand.

    Someday, Vista may be the best choice for everyone. Today,
    there is much work to be done towards that end and until
    then, it's a very subjective thing, and choice depends on
    having good information, NOT what Tony was doing which was
    ignoring facts presented because he either chose to, or
    didn't feel that they subjectively mattered.

    It is crazy that you and he go out of your way to *defend*
    Vista. I seriously wonder about your agenda now too.

    Realize something. A product can stand on it's own merit if
    it has enough for the purpose. Extra effort just raises a
    red flag that the merits need srutinization.

    It doesn't effect me either way if someone runs Vista or XP
    or some 'nix variant. Note I didn't try to argue any
    particular alternative, though I did assume the average
    person was probably running XP at this point.

    People need clear facts. CBFalconer linked to several
    sources, but so far we have deliberate attempts to do
    anything except address facts. That is a very damning
    position to be in for anyone who cares to take it.
     
    kony, Dec 25, 2007
  13. B. Schneier

    TJ Guest

    Each of us has an agenda, kony. Most of us are complex enough to have
    more than one. I have several myself. Even you have them, though you may
    deny it. Oh, that's not a slam. Many do deny their agendas, and a number
    of those that deny them don't realize they exist. But they're there.
    It's the nature of the beast.

    TJ
     
    TJ, Dec 25, 2007
  14. B. Schneier

    measekite Guest

    He is in the printer business therefore not impartial.
    I do not believe anybody who is in the printer business.
    XP like all Windows OS is not as good and the latest Aple OS and that is
    not as good as Linux.
    I do not have a psychology background and I have a good idea about how
    people respond to change. You do not need to be a quiz kid to do that.
     
    measekite, Dec 26, 2007
  15. B. Schneier

    TJ Guest

    You once told me you were trying to design a printer. Assuming you
    weren't lying, and assuming that, if successful, you would sell said
    design, that would put *you* in the printer business, now wouldn't it?
    Must mean you're not impartial, either. Oh, wait - I knew that already.
    Interesting. Even you don't believe you. I think that makes it unanimous!

    TJ
     
    TJ, Dec 26, 2007
  16. B. Schneier

    measekite Guest

    Either you are or you are mistaken. One or the other. So if you are
    not mistaken then you are a liar or if you are not a liar you are
    mistaken. Your choice.
     
    measekite, Dec 26, 2007
  17. B. Schneier

    TJ Guest

    From comp.periphs.printers, posted 10:39am September 14, 2006 (look it
    up on Google Groups if you don't believe me):
    I couldn't call you a liar about this then because I had no evidence one
    way or the other. However, I didn't believe you and apparently I was
    justified in that disbelief. Since you don't remember anything about
    this project of only a little over a year ago, it must be that you were
    lying then. Or you're lying now.

    Either way you're a liar, and not to be believed. Ever.

    TJ
     
    TJ, Dec 26, 2007
  18. B. Schneier

    Frank Guest

    measekite wrote:


    nothing but lies...as usual...his is an incessant, insidious liar.
    He is also an idiot and moron.
    Frank
     
    Frank, Dec 26, 2007
  19. B. Schneier

    Frank Guest

    Measekite is a lunatic sociopath. Koni's got a poker up his ass. Me?
    What do you think?
     
    Frank, Dec 27, 2007
  20. TJ, please don't feed the troll. It's what he wants and lives for.
    Disengage. Breathe.

    Richard
     
    Richard Steinfeld, Dec 27, 2007
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