What is normal temp for Opteron 252s

Discussion in 'Tyan' started by Scotter, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. Scotter

    Scotter Guest

    .... on Tyan Thunder K8WE S2895

    I'm running two Opteron 252's on my K8WE S2895.

    Stock HS & coolers had following temps and changing today to Zalman
    CNPS-9500s made only about 1 deg. C difference:

    2D

    CPU1 55C
    CPU2 63C


    3D

    CPU1 59C
    CPU2 65C


    Video Encoding

    CPU1 61C
    CPU2 69C
     
    Scotter, Jan 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    Are you running a case fan? Is the opening non-restrictive?
    Did you put on a thin coating of thermal grease? What kind?
    Is the air intake on the bottom front of the case buried in a rug?
    Is it really hot in your room?
    Are the Zalmans in low speed mode? Did you try high speed mode?

    Apparently 67C is the max
    http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/opteron/details.aspx?opn=OSA252BLBOX
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    Ed Light, Jan 14, 2006
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  3. Scotter

    gimp Guest


    bad temps - i would say you're getting misreported/swapped temps from
    whatever app you're using to measure - this is common. do the BIOS temps
    also report those values...?
     
    gimp, Jan 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Scotter

    Paul Guest

    Cooling a computer is a two stage affair. The CPU heatsink
    dumps heat into the case air. The case air eventually dumps
    its heat into the room. You, as the cooling designer, have
    the option of optimizing either of those processes. If, for
    example, you don't do the right thing for the flow of cooling
    air through the case, then the biggest CPU cooler in the world
    won't help. (So, when a computer has a cooling problem, you
    can either improve the case air flow, or improve the CPU
    cooling, and one of those options will be cheaper than the
    other.)

    A well cooled computer case, will have from 7C to 10C temperature
    rise. That means, if the room temp is 25C, then the computer
    case should be no more than 32C to 35C by comparison. If you
    have an SLI config and dual processors, it would be pretty
    hard to hit 7C delta, and even keeping the delta to 10C will
    be tough.

    From this site, we get a cooling air equation for the computer
    case.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20030215003614/http://www.chassis-plans.com/cooling_and_noise.html

       CFM = 3.16 x Watts / Delta_T_degrees_F

    If you were cooling 200W of CPUs and 200W of video cards,
    then to meet 10C rise, we would need:

    CFM = 3.16 * 400W / (10C*9F/5C) = 70CFM

    Some sample fan data can be seen here. This will help you
    gauge what size of fan would be needed.

    http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1600.pdf Panasonic (NMB MAT)
    http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1601.pdf Panasonic (NMB MAT)
    http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T061/1602.pdf EBM Papst

    I have a 120x120x38, and it is pretty loud when it is wound out.
    That is one fan that runs with 7V on it, to keep the noise down.
    To use a large fan like that effectively, means having a large
    intake vent area on the front of the computer. For that large of
    fan, you would likely need to remove the drive tray fascia for
    about four trays, to get enough room for the intake air to flow.
    Doing that, also means the disk drives mounted in those trays,
    get the best cooling possible. (Disk drives are the most
    sensitive components, with regard to temperature, probably
    followed by the CPUs in your case. Lower temps also help
    prolong the life of the components inside your power supply.)

    My fan draws 12V @ 1A, which means when it comes to a device to
    adjust the voltage to the fan, a Zalman FanMate is not enough.
    I currently am using a string of diodes to drop the voltage,
    as each diode drops about 0.7V. An adjustable three terminal
    regulator would be another way to do this. (There are rheobus
    controllers that fit in a drive tray, but you would need a high
    quality design for currents like that. Many of those four fan
    controllers are crap and burn out in minutes. You need something
    that got rave reviews.)

    So, perhaps something between 92mm and 120mm in a fan, will
    give you a good cooling solution. If you go overboard like I
    did, then you end up needing a speed adjusting device. If
    you select something closer to the right CFMs, then the noise
    level is probably good enough as is.

    A quick test you can try, is to remove the side from the
    computer case, while your load test is running. If the
    CPU temperatures start to fall, when the side comes off the
    computer case, then you need more air through the case.
    In some situations, you already own good enough fans, and
    in fact the vent space on the case is insufficient. That
    was a problem with my Antec Sonata case - not enough holes
    for air inlet. I had to remove the plastic grill from the
    front of the case, to improve air flow.

    For dust control, I've read advice suggesting front intake
    and rear exhaust CFMs should be balanced. Likely the position
    of the fans (low in front, high in back) has something to do
    with whether the dust can settle or not. Any spots in the case
    that have dead air, will tend to allow the dust to settle out.
    The best way to figure out what works, is to do your own
    experiments.

    Now some sample math for CPUs. Since you got a CNPS9500 for
    your Opty, theta_R is 0.12C/W to 0.16C/W. At 100 watts of
    power dissipation, that means the delta across the CPU HSF
    is 12C to 16C. If room air is 25C, and we achieve the target
    of no more than 10C case air rise, the CPU temp is
    25C + 10C + (12C..16C) or 47C..51C CPU die temp. That is
    what I would expect if all the stuff you bought, is working
    as planned. That suggest your computer case currently must
    be like an oven :)

    http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=165&code=005

    When you get your stuff adjusted, post back your new temps.
    Of the Tyan board has a case air temp monitoring feature,
    you will be able to estimate the case air temp based on
    that monitor. Usually they put a thermistor somewhere on
    the motherboard, where hot devices won't get to it, and
    that is what is measuring the case air temp.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Jan 14, 2006
    #4
  5. Scotter

    Scotter Guest

    I appreciate all you guys' thoughts on this matter!

    Yeah, unfortunately, this isn't something I can fix by reseating the
    heatsinks or redesigning the air flow in my case :(

    Because:

    (a) I used arctic silver. I put just a dab and spread it around very thin
    over entire processor. Seated both heatsinks tight against the processors.

    (b) Room is cool.

    (c) Air is sucked into bottom front of this Antec Titan server case (up an
    inch off ground) by a 92mm case fan I added early yesterday. Air exits case
    via a 120mm fan (was part of case) up by the CPUs. Ambient is about 27C.

    (d) Running the Zalman 9500s at highest speed does make a difference but
    yeah, that's the speed I'm running them at; highest.

    (e) I've used both Tyan's sysmon (patched for S2895 board) and Speedfan 4.27
    and they report exact same temp numbers.

    At K8WE.com I read a couple posts where people mentioned they had exact same
    problem once they jumped to this latest BIOS. That's why I'm inclined to
    believe the problem is related to the BIOS.
     
    Scotter, Jan 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    Can you try an older bios?


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    Ed Light, Jan 14, 2006
    #6
  7. Scotter

    Scotter Guest

    Hey Ed -

    Good idea. But I'm much more afraid of dropping back one BIOS level when I
    hear also about all the important things they changed from 1.01 to 1.02 :(

    I'll just need to assume worst case (that they are actually running hot
    rather than misreporting) scenario and when I run some CPU-intensive
    application I'll keep setting processor affinity for the app to CPU#1 so
    that CPU#2 takes care of extraneous stuff only. I'm finding that when I do
    that, CPU#2's temps stay *somewhat* reasonable and the system IS running
    stable. I'll keep this practice up until Tyan publishes a fix.
     
    Scotter, Jan 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    Maybe you could try older bios temporarily just to see what temperatures
    they read, then go back to the current one.

    You could just boot from a floppy and read the idle temps to keep any issues
    away from your os. Before flashing and doing that you could warm it up by
    normal usage.

    Hopefully you won't have to restore all kinds of customized settings
    afterwards.

    I'm running an older bios because they threw out some good stuff in the next
    one and now they're way past that one but I guess I will ignore the new bios
    since I won't be getting a dual core anytime soon and these are very good.
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    Ed Light, Jan 15, 2006
    #8
  9. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    Ed Light, Jan 15, 2006
    #9
  10. Scotter

    rhys Guest

    You are quite a decent writer...it's clear you know your stuff, but
    you keep the language and concepts basic enough that a newbie can
    follow even as the more advanced home builder nods in agreement and
    checks out the engineer-oriented links...

    Thanks!

    R.
     
    rhys, Jan 15, 2006
    #10
  11. Scotter

    Scotter Guest

    Hey Ed -

    Thanks. I just opened it up and shined a flashlight around. Shwew no bad
    caps!

    But just now when I got home I booted it up cold and went straight into BIOS
    to see initial temps.

    CPU#1 48C
    CPU#2 54C

    I see value in your idea of trying out the old BIOS but based on hearing
    other people having exact same problem when they moved up a BIOS and how I
    really don't want to write down all my BIOS settings and do that whole
    floppy thing plus fact that i don"t even have a floppy drive
     
    Scotter, Jan 15, 2006
    #11
  12. Scotter

    plowak Guest

    I use a temperature gun, you can get these at an auto supply store, to check
    out the various components of the motherboard. Try to fucus it a the base
    of the CPU heatsinks. It could very well be the the BIOS is in error when
    reading temp's, it wouldn't be the first time that that has happened. The
    temp gun could verify the BIOS readings.
     
    plowak, Jan 20, 2006
    #12
  13. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    But just now when I got home I booted it up cold and went straight into
    I'd only expect that to be accurate if the heatsinks were on crooked. :-(


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    Ed Light, Jan 20, 2006
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  14. Scotter

    Rob Stow Guest

    Those are actually in the temp range you would expect with the
    stock AMD cooler. And unless you are overclocking they are well
    below the point where anyone needs to start worrying about high
    temps. A lot of people happily accept Opteron temps in the low
    60's if it will let them run the CPU fans half as fast - and
    hence a lot quieter.

    A 4 to 10'C temperature difference is also common in dualies
    because of uneven air temperatures within the case. The CPU that
    is lower or closer to the front of the case is usually
    significantly cooler than the other.
     
    Rob Stow, Jan 20, 2006
    #14
  15. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    But right into the bios cold?


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    Ed Light, Jan 20, 2006
    #15
  16. You're looking at the temperature of the chip itself. The chip has very
    little thermal mass and warms up *very* quickly.

    DS
     
    David Schwartz, Jan 20, 2006
    #16
  17. Scotter

    Scotter Guest

    I'm going to take the advice of a previous poster and reseat the coolers
    with slightly less goop and let the case lay on it's side for 24 hours so
    the goop can "set".
     
    Scotter, Jan 20, 2006
    #17
  18. Hmm, that's kind of scary terminology. What thermal interface compound
    are you using?

    Here's some generic advice that might not be 100% correct for your
    interface compound:

    1) Clean the CPU and heatsink thoroughly. You can use things like
    Windex, but it's best to do the final cleanup with alcohol or something that
    will remove residual oils. Make sure you have clean, flat metal on both
    sides.

    2) Apply heat sink compound to the part of the heat sink that mates with
    the chip. I use a clean plastic bag to "rub it in". You can rub in all
    directions, all you want. Then use a lint-free cloth to wipe off the heat
    sink compound. (This is called 'tinting' and you're just trying to fill
    microscopic holes, not leave a layer.)

    3) Apply heat sink compound to the mating surface of the chip. Use a
    very small amount, half a grain of rice is plenty. I use a clean credit card
    edge to smooth it. It should be a barely continuous layer, perhaps the
    smallest you can make that has no holes.

    4) Examine the CPU and heat sink. Ensure there are no hairs or other
    foreign particles near the mating area.

    5) Mate the heat sink to the chip using a straight down motion. Do not
    twist, push, or pull any more than necessary. (Doing this really only causes
    the microscopic peaks of one side to scrape out heat sink compound from the
    microscopic valleys on the other.)

    6) Attach the heat sink and fan to the motherboard. Make absolutely sure
    the heat sink is sitting perfectly flat against the CPU.

    DS
     
    David Schwartz, Jan 20, 2006
    #18
  19. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    My Winchester hasn't even reached 28C. Is there something about Opterons
    that make them light up like that, instantly?


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    Ed Light, Jan 20, 2006
    #19
  20. Scotter

    Ed Light Guest

    Are you using generic heat sink paste?

    You might get some ArcticSilver Ceramique and read the instructions for it
    online. In one case it beat out generic by 7C on load, though it's usually
    less. It improves with time.

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    Ed Light, Jan 20, 2006
    #20
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