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Which ATI (or other? better?) card 1) has DVI and 2) will work with an OLDER AGP chip?

Discussion in 'ATI' started by MISS CHIEVOUS, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. I have a PIII 1000 and am seriously considering a DELL 2407WFP LCD 24"
    Widescreen Monitor for its PIVOT feature (and price). In case anyone
    doesn't know what a PIVOT feature is, it is the ability to rotate the
    physical monitor itself by 90° to make use of the entire monitor's
    viewable screen dimensions in a PORTRAIT mode, as viewed here:
    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2407wfp/en/rotating.htm

    I am almost certain the AGP slot on my PIII is 1st generation (possibly
    2nd). I am on a fully service-packed Windows 2000 Professional OS and
    will be using this monitor to do text work + graphics-related stuff
    (brochures, photo touchups etc.) + surfing -- hence, speed is not a
    requirement; but crisp text + crisp graphics ARE since I do a lot of
    reading on my monitors. My understanding of LCD monitors is that it is
    adviseable to have a card that supports DVI. Notwithstanding that, I
    want this card to be backwards compatible: My preference is for one
    video card that has BOTH a DVI and a VGA slot if I decide at a later
    date to use this video card with one of my old CRTs.

    Taking into account these three factors:
    1) I'd like to have both DVI and VGA slots on the card
    2) My mobo has a 1st- (or 2nd) generation AGP chip
    3) My OS is Windows 2000 Professional (not the Server version)

    What cards should I be looking at? Thanks!

    MC
     
    MISS CHIEVOUS, Oct 20, 2006
    #1
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  2. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Cari Guest

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=

    I went with the ATI x850 Pro and am not disappointed at all. It replaced a
    rather ancient (and noisy) Pixelview FX5700. Unfortunately for us AGP
    motherboard users, the choice is getting smaller daily.
    --
    Cari (MS-MVP) Windows Client - Printing & Imaging
    www.coribright.com/Windows


    I have a PIII 1000 and am seriously considering a DELL 2407WFP LCD 24"
    Widescreen Monitor for its PIVOT feature (and price). In case anyone
    doesn't know what a PIVOT feature is, it is the ability to rotate the
    physical monitor itself by 90° to make use of the entire monitor's
    viewable screen dimensions in a PORTRAIT mode, as viewed here:
    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2407wfp/en/rotating.htm

    I am almost certain the AGP slot on my PIII is 1st generation (possibly
    2nd). I am on a fully service-packed Windows 2000 Professional OS and
    will be using this monitor to do text work + graphics-related stuff
    (brochures, photo touchups etc.) + surfing -- hence, speed is not a
    requirement; but crisp text + crisp graphics ARE since I do a lot of
    reading on my monitors. My understanding of LCD monitors is that it is
    adviseable to have a card that supports DVI. Notwithstanding that, I
    want this card to be backwards compatible: My preference is for one
    video card that has BOTH a DVI and a VGA slot if I decide at a later
    date to use this video card with one of my old CRTs.

    Taking into account these three factors:
    1) I'd like to have both DVI and VGA slots on the card
    2) My mobo has a 1st- (or 2nd) generation AGP chip
    3) My OS is Windows 2000 Professional (not the Server version)

    What cards should I be looking at? Thanks!

    MC
     
    Cari, Oct 20, 2006
    #2
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  3. Almost OT: my 19" KDS LCD monitor looks just about as good on analog as
    on digital. Actually, I can't really tell the difference... I think
    most of today's monitors do the same.

    That's good (at least until I retire my old computer) because I still
    have two computers connected to the monitor via an analog-only KVM
    switch :)
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Oct 20, 2006
    #3
  4. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Clas Mehus Guest

    The X850 dosn't normaly support Dual Link DVI, which (officialy) gives
    support for DVI-resolutions above 1600x1200. Radeon X1600 in AGP
    should normaly support Dual Link DVI.

    The 1920x1200 resolution on the 24" Dell will work on some videboards
    without Dual Link DVI. For some boards I belive there is also "tricks"
    with reducing refreshrate and using the blanking-area of the picture
    to reduce the amount of data the TDMS have to process.

    Dual Link DVI is often misunderstood to be the same as Dual DVI. This
    is not the same.
     
    Clas Mehus, Oct 21, 2006
    #4
  5. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Frodo Guest

    Does your system currently use a video card or built-in graphics?
    What make and model of motherboard do you have in your computer?

    If you get a video card with 2 DVI connectors (and no VGA), it's not a
    problem
    DVI connectors on graphics cards can work with a VGA connection on a CRT or
    LCD.
    Just needs a $5-$10 adapter

    Something a little older (and cheaper) would be a Matrox G550 32MB card.
    Pay something like $25-$40 on EBay
    The G550 should work on 99% of all AGP motherboards ever made.
    Matrox cards are designed more for the 2D professional, over playing games.
    The Matrox G550 drivers would be getting on the old side now.
    But as your using an older (pre XP) operating system, should work fine.
    Matrox cards do have the best 2D of all the older graphics cards.
    ATI cards would be a close second, older Nvidia based cards come in third.
    Older Nvidia cards are really built for fast frame rate over 2D quality.

    Something like an used ATI 9600XT 128MB would be a good bang for the buck.
    With only a PIII 1000MHz CPU anything more expensive would be a waste of
    money


    I have a PIII 1000 and am seriously considering a DELL 2407WFP LCD 24"
    Widescreen Monitor for its PIVOT feature (and price). In case anyone
    doesn't know what a PIVOT feature is, it is the ability to rotate the
    physical monitor itself by 90° to make use of the entire monitor's
    viewable screen dimensions in a PORTRAIT mode, as viewed here:
    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2407wfp/en/rotating.htm

    I am almost certain the AGP slot on my PIII is 1st generation (possibly
    2nd). I am on a fully service-packed Windows 2000 Professional OS and
    will be using this monitor to do text work + graphics-related stuff
    (brochures, photo touchups etc.) + surfing -- hence, speed is not a
    requirement; but crisp text + crisp graphics ARE since I do a lot of
    reading on my monitors. My understanding of LCD monitors is that it is
    adviseable to have a card that supports DVI. Notwithstanding that, I
    want this card to be backwards compatible: My preference is for one
    video card that has BOTH a DVI and a VGA slot if I decide at a later
    date to use this video card with one of my old CRTs.

    Taking into account these three factors:
    1) I'd like to have both DVI and VGA slots on the card
    2) My mobo has a 1st- (or 2nd) generation AGP chip
    3) My OS is Windows 2000 Professional (not the Server version)

    What cards should I be looking at? Thanks!

    MC
     
    Frodo, Oct 21, 2006
    #5
  6. Frodo, thank you so much for that information viz MATROX cards. I've
    never heard of them, but they sound like they are much better suited to
    my text needs. My only concern is that the card(s) will work with a
    monitor as radically new as this 24" Widescreen . . . when ROTATED
    90°. This is where things get tricky.

    I've started a thread in the DELL forum and hope to get more specific
    feedback. I'll investigate this MATROX card in the meantime. It's so
    easy for those of us who are __not__ gaming/movie-ing with our monitors
    to be taken for granted lol. All I ever hear is "Nvidia" and "ATI" . .
    .. but there are probably millions of users such as I who are using our
    computers to work with text and graphic design, almost exclusively.
    Thank you so much for this information.

    MC
     
    MISS CHIEVOUS, Oct 21, 2006
    #6
  7. * Frodo:
    This money already gets you some brand new gfx cards from ATI and Nvidia
    with more modern GPUs.
    Nope. What you probably mean is the analog signal quality which indeed
    was great on older Matrox cards up to the G450 series. However, this
    only applies to analog monitors (CRTs) or TFTs connected via VGA input.
    The Dell 2407FPW also has DVI, and with DVI there simply is no
    difference in image quality any more.
    Right. I'd put something like a Radeon 9200 or Geforce 6200 in this
    computer.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Oct 23, 2006
    #7
  8. * MISS CHIEVOUS:
    Basically pivot is no problem for any somewhat newer gfx card. But be
    aware that some Matrox cards can't do 1920x1200 over DVI which would be
    a waste for the Dell 2407FPW. Overall, I'd recommend to stay away from
    Matrox.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Oct 23, 2006
    #8
  9. * MISS CHIEVOUS:
    No, it's probably either second generation (AGP2x) or third (AGP4x).
    What it really is will the manual of your mainboard tell you.

    No problem since the Dell 2407FPW has DVI, and with DVI you won't have
    the problem of varying signal quality like it's the case with VGA
    connection.
    You don't need a VGA port. The DVI ports of common gfx cards also carry
    the analog signals so you can connect a CRT with an DVI-VGA-Adapter
    (usually comes with the gfx card).
    Well, if it's AGP 2x you need a card that does 3.3v signalling voltage.
    This excludes all cards that have a GPU with native PCIe interface and
    are connected to AGP over a PCIe-AGP-bridge (Rialto) as these bridge
    chips only do 1.5v.
    For your purpose get something like a used Radeon 9000, Radeon 9200 or
    Radeon 9600 if you want ATI (or a Geforce4 if you want a Nvidia card).
    These cards are cheap now, and do everything you want.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Oct 23, 2006
    #9
  10. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Frodo Guest

    I was recommending the Matrox G550 because his motherboard is old and might
    only do AGP X1, X2.
    And most of the newer AGP cards only do AGP X4, X8
    I just bought a used ATI 9600XT AGP 128MB off EBay for $35 (including
    shipping).
    I use to have a Matrox G400, then used an ATI 9100, then ATI 9600 Pro AIW,
    ATI X700, ATI X1600, now an ATI X800XL, all using VGA.
    The Matrox still has the best 2D picture, all the ATI cards are a very close
    second.
    I tried a Viewsonic VX922 LCD 19" with the X1600 running DVI.
    My Hitachi 21" monitor had the same picture quality (VGA), so return the
    Viewsonic
    Did the ATI 9200 ever come with a DVI connection?

    Matrox Display support for the G550, per Matrox web site
    Maximum resolutions (per display)
    . Digital: 1280 x 1024
    . Analog, main display: 2048 x 1536
    . Analog, secondary display: 1600 x 1200

    So the G550 might not have what he is looking for in DVI, but could
    work for him in VGA
     
    Frodo, Oct 23, 2006
    #10
  11. * Frodo:
    With a PIII 1GHz it's definitely not AGP1x but at least AGP2x and very
    likely AGP4x already.
    No. Only those cards that have a native PCIe interface. All other GPUs
    support AGP1x/2x just fine.
    The G400 had a very good image quality but this is only relevant when
    using analog input. And since using analog input on a 24" TFT with DVI
    input would be stupid the analog image quality is rather irrelevant.

    Not to forget that the G550 can't compete with the G400 and G450 in
    terms of analog image quality.
    Sure. Even the original Radeon (Radeon 7200) was already available with
    DVI. I still have some ATI Radeon 7000s here that I use occasionally,
    and even these old cards do 1920x1200 over DVI just fine.
    IMHO it would be silly to buy a G550 which even can't drive the OPs
    monitor at it's native resolutions over DVI.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Oct 23, 2006
    #11
  12. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Ray S Guest

    I'll second that. If you have an older board and analog monitors, then
    the Matrox dualies are a good choice. If your not gaming, just editing
    (And don't have software that can take advantage of the OpenGL abilities
    of the video card to assist your previews) then these old G450/500 cards
    and a good solution.
     
    Ray S, Oct 23, 2006
    #12
  13. Benjamin, how can I thank you enough for this __incredible__ DETAIL?!?
    :D

    OMG there is so much data here I'm going to print the thread out and
    rip it to a PDF lol. THANK YOU. I'll study your posts and reply with
    any further questions.

    In the meantime, I've dug up my motherboard manual and I thought I
    would share a couple of features I hadn't previously listed in my
    system description.

    First, this is a SUPERMICRO P6DGU motherboard. It is a dual-processor
    Pentium III motherboard (one of the last of its breed) capable of 1000
    X 2. I actually have two (stepped) 1000 processors in the system. The
    only reason I typically refer to it as a 1000 is that not all
    applications are capable of recognizing its 2000 speed (if I remember
    correctly, it's been 5 years since I built the computer). I bought
    this motherboard expressly for its abundant ISA slots. I have certain
    older ISA cards that I prefer using for their reliability and
    stability; thus, the P6DGU was a perfect compromise for me, allowing me
    to "straddle" older technology while still having (reasonable) speed.
    I love this motherboard. It's just awesome.

    Second, my Supermicro manual indicates that I do indeed have AGP 2X
    onboard. Just realize that what I do NOT have is PCI Express. In the
    Dell forum a Dell employee stated that Dell has not tested this 24"
    Widescreen monitor with any AGP cards -- only PCIe.

    This is going to be interesting to say the least. ;)

    MC
     
    MISS CHIEVOUS, Oct 24, 2006
    #13
  14. * MISS CHIEVOUS:
    You're welcome!
    This helps a lot. The P6DGU is a dual processor slot1 mainboard with
    i440GX chipset which is AGP 2x (3.3v).
    Right, since 2x1000Mhz doesn't make it 2000Mhz. Even with two CPUs you
    can't run a task faster than the speed of a single 1GHz cpu. Of course
    you have two processors and thus can run two tasks at the same time at
    (around!) the same speed but still it doesn't make it a 2GHz computer.
    Well, Supermicro is one of the best manufacturer for workstation and
    server boards.

    May I ask you what operating system you are using?
    The monitor doesn't give a s**t what interface the gfx card is using to
    the mainboard. All that matters is that the card has an output (VGA or
    DVI) that does 1920x1200.
    Not really. You just have to be aware that the latest AGP cards won't
    work in your mainboard due to the voltage issue. Besides that you're
    fine with most ATI or Nvidia cards out there. I'd avoid wasting money on
    Matrox at all cost, and stay away from the Geforce FX5200 and FX5500 as
    some cheap crappy cards come with a buggy BIOS that limit the DVI output
    of these cards to 1280x1024.

    If I were you I'd get a Radeon 9600 (no matter if it's a XT, SE, Pro or
    whatever as your computer can't satisfy the card enough that you notice
    any difference), Radeon 9200, Geforce4Ti4200 or something in this class.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Oct 24, 2006
    #14
  15. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Frodo Guest

    The Radeon 9200 & Nvidia 4200 are Direct X8 cards.
    ATI 9600 series would have Direct X9 support.
    My used ATI 9600XT was $33 from EBay
     
    Frodo, Oct 24, 2006
    #15
  16. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Frodo Guest

    The ATI 9600 series does not support AGP X2, only X4 & X8
    Also the ATI 9550, 9800, x700 & X800 do not support AGP X2 (per ATI's web
    site).
    The ATI 9500 series does support AGP X2, but is uses more electricity.
    What's the power rating on your power supply?

    Also the ATI 8500 & 9100 are faster then the 9000 & 9200.
     
    Frodo, Oct 24, 2006
    #16
  17. * Frodo:
    The text on the website is wrong (well, it's right, though, as ATI
    doesn't _support_ these cards in AGP1x/2x slots any more, but
    "not_supported" does not mean "does not work". It's more an issue to
    avoid support inquiries). Except X700 and X800 all these GPUs do support
    AGP2x and also support 3.3v. I once had a noname Radeon 9600 card in my
    old PII with AGP 1x.

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Oct 24, 2006
    #17
  18. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Frodo Guest

    Cool.

     
    Frodo, Oct 24, 2006
    #18
  19. MISS CHIEVOUS

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    Yeah, DVI doesn't improve your picture one iota. About the only
    advantage I've seen from it is that with an lcd monitor, it allows you
    to scale the non-native resolutions a little better, closer to a CRT
    monitor's scaling.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Oct 25, 2006
    #19
  20. My point is that analog on LCD monitors has gotten very good these
    days. It wasn't always so...
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Oct 25, 2006
    #20
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