1. This forum section is a read-only archive which contains old newsgroup posts. If you wish to post a query, please do so in one of our main forum sections (here). This way you will get a faster, better response from the members on Motherboard Point.

Why are PC sales declining ? (Skybuck thoughts on it too)

Discussion in 'Nvidia' started by Skybuck Flying, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Only thing I know of is indeed for running virtual machines. Which I
    would absolutely be doing a lot of if I was stuck with windows :)

    I suppose editing a big video or something but I don't do that.
    John Devereux, Apr 19, 2013
    1. Advertisements

  2. Skybuck Flying

    Martin Brown Guest

    Video editing, large photographic images, computer chess. All of these
    benefit from having lots of fast memory available to work in. 8G will
    let me do any two of these simultaneously with normal work. I often have
    a chess analysis running in the background whilst I am working.
    If you only ever read emails or do simple things then you can get by
    with a lot less. Never tried Win7 on anything less than 4G and these
    days I wouldn't even consider installing the 32bit version.
    Martin Brown, Apr 19, 2013
    1. Advertisements

  3. Skybuck Flying

    mike Guest

    On 4/19/2013 12:46 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
    Never tried Win7 on anything less than 4G and these
    Kinda hard to put 64-bit on a 32-bit computer.
    Your hardware budget must be bigger than mine. :)

    $1 and under garage sale 64-bit dual-core systems are
    just becoming available, but the damn things don't have
    enough hardware I/O ports or PCI slots to keep everything running.
    mike, Apr 19, 2013
  4. Skybuck Flying

    Uwe Hercksen Guest


    some time ago, the dinosaurs were Control Data, Cray, Vax and other
    mainframes. Now the time for the next generation of dinosaurs has come.

    Uwe Hercksen, Apr 19, 2013
  5. I would say people are just happy with the games on mobile devices! They
    want mobility rather than a sitting duck, though the duck is a lot more

    @[email protected] Remain silent. Nothing from soldiers and magicians is real!
    / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and farces be with you!
    /( _ )\ (Fedora 18 i686) Linux 3.8.7-201.fc18.i686
    ^ ^ 21:21:01 up 5:20 0 users load average: 0.01 0.02 0.05
    ä¸å€Ÿè²¸! ä¸è©é¨™! ä¸æ´äº¤! ä¸æ‰“交! ä¸æ‰“劫! ä¸è‡ªæ®º! è«‹è€ƒæ…®ç¶œæ´ (CSSA):
    Mr. Man-wai Chang, Apr 19, 2013
  6. Skybuck Flying

    marc Guest

    "When the water is cooling, the universe will expand".

    "the universe will expand, when the water is cooling"

    marc, Apr 19, 2013

  7. In the '80s Goodwill Industries was getting bids by steel scrap haulers
    on donated mainframe racks... hoards of 'em. Literally tons of big
    computer grade caps and fans and other stuff could have been salvaged.

    That was way back then.
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno, Apr 20, 2013
  8. Skybuck Flying

    Jasen Betts Guest

    disk cache!
    Jasen Betts, Apr 20, 2013
  9. Skybuck Flying

    MrTallyman Guest

    Muy estupido.

    cache? not.

    I used "speeddisk" back when software based caching actually had
    benefit (286/386 days). It does not with today's drives and I/O buses.

    I used a whole, considered huge at the time 16MB hardware based caching
    hard drive controller back when *that* had benefit.

    It no longer does or there would be cards still being made.

    Even big cloud racks full of hard drives use the hard drives themselves
    to get max throughput and there is no caching.

    My cheap ACER laptop with a Seagate SATA 6GB/s 750GB HD+ 8GB SSD boots
    in 15 seconds flat to Win7.

    Oh and what THIRD PARTY application are you using to 'create' a
    'RAM_Disk' with?
    MrTallyman, Apr 20, 2013
  10. Skybuck Flying

    Jasen Betts Guest

    As always, wrong!

    Disk cache is built into modern OS kernels. The OS keeps track of what
    you've accessed from, or recent written to the disk in the otherwise
    unused memory.

    --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
    Jasen Betts, Apr 20, 2013
  11. Hiya George,

    Building a good gaming rig is not easy, I tried myself, and you can google
    for the results, it was a pain in the ass.

    Problems faced: overheat, dust collection.

    Having said that.

    The latest and greatest graphics card is the nvidia titan. Even a super
    computer was named after it.

    However one would have to make sure the power supply can handle it and
    perhaps the motherboard as well.

    The titan probably gets hot though, so a passively cooled graphics card is
    interesting too though they not as powerfull.

    Perhaps a mid range card is safest.

    Also a good case is needed for ventilation.

    You mentioned upgrading an old desktop and then you mention buying a new one

    I am a bit confused about that.

    If truely upgrading have to be carefull that all components can handle it.

    If buying a new one, perhaps being a computer from a specialized gaming rig
    company is an idea.

    Perhaps they can throw it some nice water cooling... or just a decently
    designed air cooled PC.

    It all depends on the budget ;) :)

    Minecraft is probably not the most demanding game but you also mentioned
    overheat of laptop... so you are familiar with the overheat topic ;) :)

    Dell is probably crap, HP is probably crap too... a little bit less crap
    though just cheap... at least my mothers HP still running barely... it
    little used though... my sister bought a Dell it died :)

    All computers seem to die lately ;) :)

    1.) should I buy from Dell? (I've used them in the past.)

    If you lazy perhaps yes, or give Alien Ware a try or so ;) :) <- they
    selling gaming rigs if I am not mistaken ;)

    2.) Which operating system. I was thinking of win8... but now you've
    all made me nervous, but I wouold like some newer version of windows
    (running XP at home and work.) moslty becasue the kids will be using
    the newer version in school. So maybe Win7?

    Perhaps wait a bit for the new windows 8.1 operating system.

    It would suck having to buy windows 7 with all those services packs and
    patches... it would be patching 2 days at least.

    Also it's on the way out so not really future ready ?! More and more games
    will start focussing on windows 8...

    3.) How much memory? I figured 8 or 12G.

    It's a bit overkill but always good to have more.

    Even my system with 4 GB ram only uses 3.2 and it works fine.

    If you want to be future proof get 8GB otherwise spent the money on
    something else.

    4.) Do I need the fancy graphics cards for gaming? (My thought was I
    could let my son pitch in for a better card if that's needed.)

    Yes for good gaming a graphics card is needed/essential.

    I see more and more games using CUDA, so getting an NVIDIA card would be
    wise ;) :) plus I am a slight nvidia fan so I may be biased ;) :)

    I hope to have been of some help, trust me it not easy ;) :)

    Skybuck Flying, Apr 20, 2013
  12. You are an idiot. you proved it yourself. Time and time again.
    You are an idiot... proven with your retarded posts... Time and time
    You didn't say anything, dumbass.
    And it is the last thing a dumbass like you needs to be trying to get
    installed. and working.
    Perhaps? Perhaps you are a clueless twit who should not be attempting
    to guide anyone's PC build endeavors.
    And we need you to deliver these common sense bits of info? No. We
    can see perfectly fine when we choose our video cards. We can weigh all
    the factors just fine. We do not need an utter idiot, who can't even
    keep a single machine running, trying to tell folks about computer parts.
    One repost of one of your stupid rants where you blame things on stupid
    reasons which were not even true and folks would see that your brain is
    no more than eleven years of age in term of maturity, and your knowledge
    is not much more advanced than that.
    And that never happens, right?
    Really? can't just buy a bunch of parts that will not work together
    and mash them together anyway?

    Do you ever say anything that isn't already an obvious requisite?
    Only for dorks like you, where Mommy is signing the check.
    And locking it in a cage so YOU can't lay your hands on it and break
    it, like all the others you touched.
    There are plenty of games that fully tax the PC.
    Before or after you touched it?
    Before or after you touch them?
    So, do you act like you are guessing your way through life, or are you
    really actually guessing your way through life?
    You're an idiot. A complete and utter stooge.
    The only thing you have ever said that even comes close to being right.
    For ALL computer use, a graphics card is essential, idiot. For gaming
    a "fairly good" graphics card is needed.
    Not with you and all your bent perceptions at the helm.
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno, Apr 20, 2013
  13. Skybuck Flying

    Tom Lake Guest

    "DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno" wrote in message

    You are an idiot. you proved it yourself. Time and time again.

    C'mon, Decadent. Don't hide your feelings. Tell us what you really think of
    Tom Lake, Apr 20, 2013
  14. Skybuck Flying

    Joe Gwinn Guest

    Faster disk!

    A while ago, I put an enterprise-class 10,000 rpm server disk on a
    PowerMac, and put the operating system and applications on it. The
    effect was dramatic - the computer became about twice as fast for all
    but compute-bound tasks.

    The disk was a Seagate Cheetah, as I recall. Used differential SCSI.

    Joe Gwinn
    Joe Gwinn, Apr 20, 2013
  15. I think this is a pretty good guidance/rule:

    For every hertz there should be a byte and vice versa ;) :)

    So if you plan on buying a 8.0 GHz processor, for example 4 cores x 2.0 GHz
    then do indeed get 8 GB of ram ! ;) :)

    Better be safe than sorry ;) :)

    Skybuck =D
    Skybuck Flying, Apr 21, 2013
  16. Funny thing is my mam already has a samsung tablet...

    She already has one for a month now.

    She kept it secret from me ! LOL.

    Later today I am going to visit her and meet the thing ! LOL =D

    Skybuck ;) =D

    It's a black one btw, a samsung galaxy 10 ! ;) =D
    Skybuck Flying, Apr 21, 2013
  17. Skybuck Flying

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    You got that wrong, the Titan video card was named after the
    supercomputer, to take advantage of the marketing potential from Nvidia
    being put into that supercomputer. Interestingly, that same computer has
    CPU's made by Nvidia's main rival, AMD. Both could've taken advantage of
    Titan as a marketing tool.

    Yousuf Khan
    Yousuf Khan, Apr 21, 2013
  18. Skybuck Flying

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    No, games have nothing to do with it. It's been shown that only about
    10% of PC's are for hard-core gaming. The rest are playing Solitaire, or
    Angry Birds, which a computer from 10 years ago could easily play.

    As far as hard-core gaming goes, the PC is the only game in town (no pun
    intended). They are higher power than all of the gaming consoles (until
    the next generation consoles come out, which will ironically be using
    AMD CPUs & GPUs, used in PC's as well). So if all a PC was for was for
    gaming, then there would be no PC sales decline, as there is always a
    market for faster and faster in that market.

    Unfortunately, there is no longer a market for faster and faster in the
    regular PC market. Most computers from 5 years ago are still more than
    powerful enough to run all of today's applications, quite fast. There
    was a time where you needed a faster computer just to run the latest
    Office. Now you don't.
    Yes, that has something to do with it, I'd say that's probably 70% of
    the problem. No, you can't simply use Windows 7 as an alternative. When
    you buy a new off-the-shelf PC, most of the latest ones are required by
    Microsoft to have Windows 8 installed, not Windows 7. This is not a
    problem if you're building your own, since you are buying whichever OS
    you want, but when you're buying an off-the-shelf computer, you don't
    have that choice usually.

    So people are avoiding buying the computer rather than holding their
    noses and buying it anyway. Combined with the fact that most computers
    from 5 years ago are still more than adequate, people can afford to hold
    off these days. Microsoft's successful strategy of forcing people to
    change for the sake of change, has now backfired.
    Not really a huge problem anymore.
    Phones, yes maybe. Tablets, no I don't think so. Everybody needs a
    phone, even if you don't do much more than use it to make phonecalls.
    Eventually, you'll find that smartphone is also pretty handy for making
    quick accesses of the Internet. Tablets are more of a luxury item, not
    everyone needs one of these, like they do a phone.
    3 & 5.

    Yousuf Khan
    Yousuf Khan, Apr 21, 2013
  19. Skybuck Flying

    Paul Guest

    When buying a new Windows 8 PC (with its installed OEM OS),
    check with the tech support of the company for "downgrade rights".
    You may be able to replace Windows 8 OEM, with Windows 7 OEM. Now,
    if it was in the actual sales menu, all the better. You can downgrade
    a Windows 8 PC with a pre-installed OS, but it does not apply
    to a copy of Windows 8 you bought yourself at the store. Downgrade
    rights were intended to protect the pre-built PC builder, from
    the tastes of the market.

    "Downgrading from Windows 8 to 7: What you need to know Nov 20, 2012"


    "Hewlett-Packard is typical: It does not support downgrades of
    consumer-grade Windows 8 PCs to Windows 7. But if you buy a machine
    loaded with Windows 8 Pro, you can make the jump. HP's policy is
    based on Microsoft's licensing terms, which support downgrade rights
    only to new PCs preloaded with Windows 8 Pro, the version of Windows
    designed for business."

    I expect the price adder for Pro, probably amounts to effectively
    just buying a license for Windows 7 :-( But, do the math and
    see for yourself.

    "We ran a quick comparison survey of machines from HP, Dell, and Toshiba,
    and found that an upgrade to the Pro version of Windows 8 increased
    system prices anywhere between $35 and $100."

    You probably can't buy 7 that cheaply. At least, a legit copy.

    Paul, Apr 21, 2013
  20. Ok,

    Yesterday I saw it and played with it...

    It was quite an amazing experience.

    None the less it remains somewhat of a toy device.

    What irritated and annoyed me the most is the way the scrolling is down.

    The fingers have to glide over the screen, and if one is not carefull it
    might activate
    a button.

    What also irritated me is that there is only a backward button and not a
    forward button.

    If I want to return back to were I was that's not possible. I would have to
    restart the play store
    for example which is very annoying.

    Also it's very sensitive... all kinds of buttons will be activated... also
    menus in the weirdest places
    it's not really centralized at any spot... will be difficult to learn and
    remember where all the menus
    are located.

    Also the device shuts off real fast, and it seems to have some problems with
    the lightning of it...
    it goes dark... and then bright again... kinda weird.

    The device shuts off in like 5 seconds or something... this can probably be

    I also looked at the software... it's mediocre here and there... it reminds
    me of my ms-dos days when I wrote all kinds
    of crappy little programs.... this is just like that... all kinds of
    neato/crappy apps... there are probably also some nice
    apps... my mam is way too scared to download anything... so I didnt download

    There were some slightly interesting games but nothing to exciting, also
    somewhat mediocre.

    I am kinda surprised that this device is already 2 years old... so it seems
    they sold her an older one ?

    It still looks fancy pancy... I wonder what the latest and greatest is ? ;)

    Android will sure give Microsoft a run for it's money... for now I am not
    too worried...

    I haven't really seen windows 8 yet on a tablet... have seen it in virtual

    Maybe windows blue will make short work of android... time will tell ;) :)

    Androad did run extremely fast though, everything was butter smooth, except
    for the occasional video
    download, that sometimes failed and the device shutdown.

    Flash was also not available kinda weird.

    Perhaps this model is a bit older and perhaps it's solved in newer version
    me dont know, maybe not.

    It costed 500 euro or so with 50 euro cut or so.

    I ask here about the warranty period she didnt ask :)

    Probably dont matter... it will probably die a few days after warranty
    expires as usual ;) :)

    Though it didn't seem to run hot.. and it made zero noise...

    It was a nice experience.... but for me being used to big LCD screens... and
    a nice big keyboard and mouse... I'll stick with that ;) :)

    Also I like scrollbars way too much ! ;) =D

    The pinching and widening to resize pictures was fun...

    The sound of the device kinda amazed me... I read before I went over
    there... in the specs... that it had surround sound...

    I was wondering how such a flat device could achieve that... the sound was
    indeed impressive for a flat little thing.

    But ofcourse it pales compared to my x-fi + 7.1 surround sound system (even
    without the subwoofer) ;) :) lol.

    I don't have wireless internet so for me a tablet makes little sense in that
    sense ;) :)

    Unless I want to keep it a little bit more secure... but it's probably not
    really secure... it could end up on random wifi networks.

    Though sometimes I wish I had one too for in bed... then I can be lazy in
    bed ;) :)

    I will wait and see if any windows blue arm tablets arrive... me kinda fan
    of microsoft/windows... that's what I know...

    That android thing could kinda drive me crazy with all it's weird quircks...
    but for newcomers they probably dont mind as much.

    The way it swept the screen/menus was kinda fun to look at but not very
    convienent hard to find things.

    So it's all flashy and eye candy... but little real practical
    value/handyness and that kills it for me mostly ;) :)

    Though the integrated deeper menus did show some sense and ordering... and
    that was more okish ;) :)

    The screen was super reflective like a mirror... I could see myself when the
    screen went black... it wasn't very pleasent to look at... though I am a
    handsome guy ;) :p* ;) :) =D

    I like looking at myself... but not when I am trying to look at the screen

    Also the button to take a picture of yourself seems quite annoying... I
    offered my mom to remove it... but I am not even sure if it's possible I
    would think so...

    Also setting before so many cameras makes me feel slightly uneasy.

    Plus the added radiation of all that wireless traffic makes me wonder about
    liver cancer and all that ;) :) =D the final crazy nail in the coffin ;) :)

    Plus also wireless interception/hacks and cracks...

    I asker her if she was going to bank with it... she said no... I thought
    that was kinda weird.. cause she would do it with the bigger laptop.

    I can see her point/argument though... the tablet is more convenient to
    quickly catch up with some stuff... she seems to like facebook the most...
    watching new pictures of family members and acquintences. I saw some
    interesting photos as well, but mostly it bores me.

    As a software developer I found watching at the stores the most interesting
    ;) :)

    I took a look at the software development stack needed, it's quite
    large/immense... and it uses java for fucks sake ? ;) :)

    Though in a few days Delphi XE 4 is coming out and it might have android

    Would be fun to make a stupid little app/hello world for my mother's android
    device ;) :)

    Maybe more but dont count on it... probably not a lot of money being made
    with it... but that depends on what you call a lot ;) :) and which store
    service one uses.

    I have seen stories of cap limits of 30k perhaps 5k per year... also 1m per
    month ad stories ;) :) <- crazy/angry birds anybody ? :) LOL.

    What pisses me off is that most of this technology does not seem available
    for PCs ?!

    Can I please have some of this embedded into a PC ?!

    Thanks ?!

    Perhaps that's a pie dream for now... driving big LCDs requires a bit
    more... ;) :)

    I don't really believe that though... I think it's already possible...
    something is fucked up... too hot processors for desktops... need more cool
    ones ;) :) =D

    Skybuck Flying, Apr 22, 2013
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.