1. This forum section is a read-only archive which contains old newsgroup posts. If you wish to post a query, please do so in one of our main forum sections (here). This way you will get a faster, better response from the members on Motherboard Point.

will the HW update the TLB when I modify a page table entry?

Discussion in 'Embedded' started by dick, Jan 13, 2008.

  1. dick

    dick Guest

    will the HW update the TLB when I modify a page table entry?
    dick, Jan 13, 2008
    1. Advertisements

  2. dick

    Arlet Ottens Guest

    You'll get better answers if you mention what HW you're using.
    Arlet Ottens, Jan 13, 2008
    1. Advertisements

  3. No, you have to use an instruction to invalidate the TLB entry. Page tables
    can be quite large, so it is impossible to monitor writes to page tables.

    Wilco Dijkstra, Jan 13, 2008
  4. I think, it is not possible.
    But, i wonder if there is any such design in existence ?

    Karthik Balaguru
    karthikbalaguru, Jan 13, 2008
  5. dick

    dick Guest

    will the HW write back the TLB entry when I invalidate it? If I modify
    the page table entry first, the HW may change it when I invalidate the
    TLB entry.
    dick, Jan 14, 2008
  6. TLB is a one-way cache. Don't mix it with data cache. So: No write
    BTW: Even with data-cache: invalidate will not write back, because the
    data it contains is _invalid_.
    42Bastian Schick, Jan 14, 2008
  7. dick

    dick Guest

    So if I want to implement a LRU replacement, how can I check the dirty
    bit and reference bit? how can I flush the TLB entries back to the
    page table before I check these bits?
    dick, Jan 15, 2008
  8. dick

    Didi Guest

    So if I want to implement a LRU replacement, how can I check the dirty
    On the PPC (I have done it for the G2/603e core) you do not implement
    the LRU replacement for TLBs, it is implemented in hardware.
    Whenever you load a new TLB the least recently used one will be
    discarded to make space for your new load, you cannot control that.
    I suppose you could maintain a parallel TLB array in software
    and do on it what you expect the MMU to do, although I see no
    point in doing that (nor is there a way to guarantee coherency
    between the two other than never making the wrong guess).
    Again, the TLB cache is not a write-back one, it does never
    write anything anywhere, you can only write to it. On the
    PPC mentioned above, that is. And you just do not have access
    to the dirty, referenced etc. bits in the TLB cache (nor in any
    other cache on that core, actually).


    Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments


    So if I want to implement a LRU replacement, how can I check the dirty
    bit and reference bit? how can I flush the TLB entries back to the
    page table before I check these bits?[/QUOTE]
    Didi, Jan 15, 2008
  9. dick

    dick Guest

    what I said was "LRU page replacement".

    When CPU changes a word, the page table entry will indicate this page
    is dirty and referenced. but we have TLB, the dirty and reference
    bits are in TLB cache now.
    how can SW check the dirty and reference bits?
    dick, Jan 15, 2008
  10. dick

    Didi Guest

    So if I want to implement a LRU replacement, how can I check the dirty
    Oh that's another thing. You maintain a complete page translation
    by software; you do maintain all the bits per PTE (page translation
    by software, you deal with them in the ISI/DSI exception handlers.
    Depending on the device, you get all the info you need in some
    special purpose registers - this is how it works on the PPC I
    have used, at least.
    When you get an instruction or data translation miss exception,
    you locate the respective PTE; depending on what you find in it,
    you either just load a new TLB cache entry and return (i.e. you had
    the page translated and it was not a first write to it etc.), or
    you handle things further - e.g. if this is the first reference to
    this page you run (simulate in the G2) an ISI or DSI exception, which
    deals with the situation essentially referring to the PTE table,
    which is in memory. Once you have prepared the right PTE, you
    either load it in the TLB or exit and leave it to the repeated
    translation miss exception to find the now usable for it entry.

    Which page and when you write to disk or recover from disk has
    nothing to do with the TLB cache, you do that in the ISI/DSI
    exception handlers (i.e. working on/with your memory based
    PTE table). How you maintain which entry was least recently
    used, which is swapped and has to be brought back etc. is your
    call as far as the processor is concerned.

    Didi, Jan 15, 2008
  11. Just mark a page as inaccessible and the page faults will tell you.

    Wilco Dijkstra, Jan 15, 2008
  12. dick

    dick Guest

    too bad.

    so periodically I have to invalidate the whole TLB, mark all page
    table entries as inaccessible but keep the information in other place.
    then page fault occur, the handler finds out which page causes the
    exception, and set that page table enty back to accessible state,
    then load the entry into TLB. then set the page table entry's
    referenced and dirty bits to 1s

    is it correct?
    dick, Jan 16, 2008
  13. Correct. It is how all paging OSes work. Normally they don't do it for
    all pages in one go (this would give a large performance hit), but for
    a subset of pages. In particular the OS first picks a set of pages to
    be recycled based on usage history, marks them as inaccessible,
    and places them in a page-out buffer for a while before reusing them
    (after writing to disk if dirty). If those pages are used while waiting
    they are made available immediately and some other candiates are
    picked for paging. So as a result of paging activity one gets the
    usage info of pages for free.

    You really want to read a good book on OS design.

    Wilco Dijkstra, Jan 16, 2008
  14. dick

    dick Guest

    Thank you.

    Can you recommend some books about OS implement?
    dick, Jan 16, 2008
  15. At Uni we used Structured Computer Architecture by Tanenbaum, but
    there are several newer and more specific books by him: Operating
    Systems Design and Implementation and Modern Operating Systems.

    Wilco Dijkstra, Jan 16, 2008
  16. dick

    Tauno Voipio Guest

    Another vote to professor Tanenbaum.
    Tauno Voipio, Jan 17, 2008
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.