Would you consider newer Macs and their newer OS' as PCs?

Discussion in 'Apple' started by Ant, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. Ant

    Ant Guest

    Hello!

    Since newer Macs and their Mac OS X can do PC stuff with dual boot,
    virtual programs (e.g., VMware and VirtualBox), use other OS (e.g.,
    Linux), etc. Would you consider them PCs now?

    My friend (a PC guy :p) and I had a debate that they are not PCs. To me,
    they are PCs since they can do PCs stuff. He argued it can't do
    PC/Windows games, use all the latest and greatest PC peripherials and
    cards from day 1, etc.

    What do you guys think? Thank you in advance. :)
    --
    "We are anthill men upon an anthill world." --Ray Bradbury
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    Ant, Jun 23, 2008
    #1
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  2. My first PC was an apple II. My second PC should have been a Dell. But
    they had no German keyboard driver at that time - so the PC became a
    Mac Plus. Not really cheap, but worth the money...
     
    Guenther Fischer, Jun 23, 2008
    #2
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  3. I've considered them PCs for more than 24 years.

    Then again, I've worked on mainframes and minis. To me, "personal
    computer" doesn't have capital letters.
    I think your friend's argument is ill-informed, even taking into account
    the common definition of "PC" as meaning "in the effective lineage of
    the IBM Personal Computer" rather than the more general "personal
    computer." Modern Macs are no less capable of the things he listed than
    name-brand Windows-running machines.
     
    Gregory Weston, Jun 23, 2008
    #3
  4. As you know Greg, there has always been difered between 'Mac' and 'PC's.
    - why this differing may be somewhere in the winds in the space.:)

    So maybe we should give the Macs a brand new 'name' - 'MPC' - now =
    'Multi Platform Computer'...:)

    cheers, Erik Richard

    --
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    Erik Richard Sørensen, Jun 23, 2008
    #4
  5. Ant

    Ant Guest

    That is what I was thinking too. Wait, you can use the newest ATI and
    NVIDIA cards in Macs now? I didn't know that.
    --
    "When the people look like ants -- PULL. When the ants look like people
    -- PRAY." --A skydiving quote
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    Ant, Jun 23, 2008
    #5
  6. Indeed it sounds to me like the friend recalled hearing some other
    argument, but forgot what the points were and guessed them incorrectly.
    I have heard people argue things like that the use of EFI makes Intel
    Macs not "real" Windows machines. I consider those to be poor arguments,
    but I have heard them.

    But your friend seems to be just plain ill-informed. Intel Macs
    certainly can do things like run PC/Windows games. The one I'm typing
    this on is quite good at them - better than any of the non-Mac Windows
    boxes I have or have had. I have several such games installed on it and
    yes, they include some of the "latest and greatest."

    Nobody else has ever used a definition of "PC" (Windows or otherwise)
    that includes such things as being able to "use all the latest and
    greatest PC peripherals and cards." That's part of what just sounds like
    your friend trying to recall what the argument was, but getting it
    completely wrong. So according to your friend, there are no PC laptops,
    since you can't put "all the latest" cards in any laptop out there? (Try
    a video card, for example.) And as soon as a new interface of some kind
    comes out, what were PCs last year are suddenly no longer PCs? For
    example, all those PCs I had with AGP video cards stopped being PCs
    when.... ah whatever the acronym was - I forget... replaced AGP as the
    "latest and greatest" thing? Or for that matter, just the next speed
    bump up in AGP. And many Dells aren't PCs because Dell has a long
    history of doing things just slightly enough different that it is
    sometimes hard to use non-Dell cards with them? (Actual, I think Dells
    have been better about that recently, but they used to have issues like
    that.)

    Well, if your friend wants to use definitions like that, I suppose he is
    free to talk to himself all day. But those aren't definitions that
    anyone else in the world uses. If he is going to make up his own
    completely arbitrary definitions, he might as well at least make up
    useful ones. For example, claim that a Mac Pro isn't a PC because it is
    just slightly too big to fit in the cabinet that my desk has for a tower
    PC. That definition at least has some utility, though the rest of the
    world doesn't know about it. :)

    Sure the kiddies like to brag about whose hot rod is fastest, but I
    think your friend got his arguments mixed up.
     
    Richard Maine, Jun 23, 2008
    #6
  7. I suspect you are referring to registering a trademark. You can't
    copyright a word (though the way things are going...). Note also that
    copyrights refer to the right to copy rather than a rite of copying.
    Thus the spelling. It is true that copying a floppy on an original IBM
    PC was a bit of a rite if you had only one drive, but I doubt they
    copyrighted that particular rite. :)

    I seriously doubt that IBM registered a trademark for the term "PC"
    since that term was already in common generic use. Heck, you can loose a
    trademark if you let your trademark become too widely generically used
    after the fact, much less if it was already generically used. It
    wouldn't suprise me if they trademarked "IBM PC", though I haven't
    checked, but then that wasn't the question either.
     
    Richard Maine, Jun 23, 2008
    #7
  8. a) It wouldn't be copyright. It would be trademark.
    b) They couldn't. The term was already in widespread use by the time
    they entered the desktop/microcomputer market. They could and did
    trademark the augmented form "IBM-PC" but that trademark was abandoned
    over a decade ago.
     
    Gregory Weston, Jun 23, 2008
    #8
  9. Ant

    Tom Stiller Guest

    Back in the day, I used to carry my box of punched cards on the train to
    NY to use the 7094 at the IBM Service Center. Since the machine didn't
    run a multi-user OS, it was a "one man - one machine" pr personal
    computer. :)
     
    Tom Stiller, Jun 23, 2008
    #9
  10. Ant

    OldCSMAer Guest

    To me a Mac is a PC that can run Mac OS. YMMV.
     
    OldCSMAer, Jun 23, 2008
    #10
  11. As with others, I've always considered Macs to be Personal Computers. But
    the "Hi, I'm a PC" ads certainly suggest that Apple marketing is playing
    along with the more limited meaning of "PC".

    But before I really think about your question, I've got other more
    meaningful things to worry about. For example, I'm still trying to work
    out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. And what happens if
    we consider pins that aren't limited to just four decimal digits. If the
    old line that God created the natural numbers and the rest are the
    invention of Man, then pins seem to be the right sort of thing for angels
    to dance on.

    -j
     
    Jeffrey Goldberg, Jun 23, 2008
    #11
  12. Ant

    dorayme Guest

    So, have you got an interim ball-park figure as yet?
     
    dorayme, Jun 24, 2008
    #12
  13. Ant

    J.J. O'Shea Guest

    Yes you can, but why would you? You'd still need the OS X DVD so that you
    could get the drivers for the various Apple devices on the system, including
    but not limited to:

    networking (both Ethernet and wireless)
    Bluetooth
    audio
    the iSight camera
    the special keys on the keyboard
    the buttons on the Mighty Mouse
     
    J.J. O'Shea, Jun 24, 2008
    #13
  14. Ant

    J.J. O'Shea Guest

    4,101,298.4
     
    J.J. O'Shea, Jun 24, 2008
    #14
  15. 42?

    -j
     
    Jeffrey Goldberg, Jun 24, 2008
    #15
  16. Ant

    Calum Guest

    Then he's wrong, that's what Boot Camp is for.
     
    Calum, Jun 24, 2008
    #16
  17. Ant

    Simon Slavin Guest

    On 23/06/2008, Ant trolled.

    Please note that crossposting within the comp.sys.mac.* hierarchy is
    banned. Should you choose to follow-up, please post only to the group
    where your message is on-charter. Thank you for your help.

    Simon.
     
    Simon Slavin, Jun 25, 2008
    #17
  18. Ant

    Telstar Guest

    When confronted with someone who insists that a box must be running
    idiot.
     
    Telstar, Jun 27, 2008
    #18
  19. Yea, it's quite funny how people do not realize that Macs and whatever other
    computer you are using are still Personal Computers. If people are ignorant
    to say that Mac's are not PC's, then what would you say about people
    dualbooting OS X along with Vista?
     
    Stephen Parnicky, Jul 11, 2008
    #19
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