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x4500 niagara

Discussion in 'Sun Hardware' started by Frank Cusack, Jul 13, 2006.

  1. Frank Cusack

    Frank Cusack Guest

    So if the T1 processor is so good at throughput, and one would expect
    an NFS (or iSCSI) environment to be able to take very good advantage
    of this, why is the x4500 an x64 box ... along with the attendant misery
    of BIOS vs OBP/ALOM.

    Not to mention power consumption.

    -frank
     
    Frank Cusack, Jul 13, 2006
    #1
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  2. Frank Cusack

    Rich Teer Guest

    Good question.
    I think the power delta between one T1 and a pair of Opeterons would
    be small compared to 48 SATA disks... :)

    --
    Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

    President,
    Rite Online Inc.

    Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
    URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
     
    Rich Teer, Jul 13, 2006
    #2
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  3. Frank Cusack

    Frank Cusack Guest

    Not really. Hard drives don't consume a lot of power. Also, Sun
    is obligated to use the SWaP metric.

    Only 11.5W for a single hard drive "random R/W operation" (from
    http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/perf/perf/spec/otherPower-c.html)
    x48 = 552W

    vs 72W for T1 power (13% of hard drive power)
    and 95Wx2 = 190W for Opteron power (34% of hard drive power)

    And the difference is 118W, but then factor in 4 threads vs 32 threads.
    8x the throughput for 85% of the power and I have to ask again, why
    is this not a T1 processor?

    -frank
     
    Frank Cusack, Jul 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Frank Cusack

    Rich Teer Guest

    I think Thumper was originally from Andy B's Kaela (sp?) that Sun bought.
    a year or two ago. If that's the case, it might simply be because Kaela
    didn't have access to a T1 early enough in the design cycle.

    But yeah, I'd be interested in seeing how the performance of a T1 based
    X4500 would compare to the Opteron based one.

    --
    Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

    President,
    Rite Online Inc.

    Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
    URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
     
    Rich Teer, Jul 14, 2006
    #4
  5. The x4500 comes with the "ILOM" remote management (separate IP for the
    ILOM and ssh access to the console port. impitool remote powermanagement,
    etc. So it is not all that bad.

    Oh, there's also the Java KVM which is builtin (run the VGA console from
    within a Java application and even attach ISO images)
    With 500Watt for the disks, who is counting CPU Watts?

    Casper
     
    Casper H.S. Dik, Jul 14, 2006
    #5
  6. So that's 18% power increase (less counting DIMMs)
    The main reason, I think, is largely historic; the system was
    far in its design stage when Sun bought the company designing it.

    Casper
     
    Casper H.S. Dik, Jul 14, 2006
    #6
  7. Frank Cusack

    hennessy Guest

    Any word on if newer x86 firmware will be smarter than generic
    legacy BIOS? Even Apple is using EFI, and having something comparable to
    OF (or actually using OF syntax, if not being actual OF) would be
    nice.
     
    hennessy, Jul 14, 2006
    #7
  8. Frank Cusack

    Rich Teer Guest

    That would be nice, but my very limited understanding of such things
    tells me that the BIOS is required to support Windoze, a requirement
    Apple presumably doesn't have. If the former is true, it would be
    another example of braindead stuff relying on braindead stuff...

    --
    Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member

    President,
    Rite Online Inc.

    Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638
    URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich
     
    Rich Teer, Jul 14, 2006
    #8
  9. Frank Cusack

    Frank Cusack Guest

    Watts/work, not just watts.

    -frank
     
    Frank Cusack, Jul 14, 2006
    #9
  10. Frank Cusack

    hennessy Guest

    Boot Camp for Apple will run Windows XP, and all Apple hardware
    uses EFI instead of legacy BIOS.. I wouldn't be surprised if there were
    some form of emulation involved to pass muster with XP, but it should be
    possible.

    Frankly, having to sit and wait through each peripheral's 'hit
    ctrl-X in the next 5 seconds to configure RAID/PXE boot/go into
    setup/flush the toilet' is extremely annoying and very 20th century.
     
    hennessy, Jul 14, 2006
    #10
  11. Frank Cusack

    Rick Jones Guest

    How do you arrive at 8x the throughput? Somehow assuming 1 Opteron
    "thread" == 1 T1 "thread" doesn't seem quite right.

    rick jones
     
    Rick Jones, Jul 14, 2006
    #11
  12. Frank Cusack

    Frank Cusack Guest

    Where would you place it? Sun certainly is positioning it as pretty
    high performance. (But I don't disagree, 8x is not going to be met.)

    http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/t1000/benchmarks.jsp#m

    It's ashame they don't put it up against other Sun servers, THAT
    would be good info.

    -frank
     
    Frank Cusack, Jul 15, 2006
    #12
  13. * hennessy:
    Right, just that one part of Boot Camp is a firmware update which
    implements the missing BIOS part in the firmware of Apples intel Macs...

    Neither Windows 32bit nor x64 support EFI. Same is valid for Vista btw.
    The only Windows that supports EFI are the Windowsxp and Windows Server
    2003 versions for IA64 Itanium...

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Jul 15, 2006
    #13
  14. Frank Cusack

    Rick Jones Guest

    A good question. Even if I had a concrete answer, I'm not sure I
    could say since so much of the stuff one needs to run on the thing (at
    least under Solaris) has an EULA that specifically forbids discussion
    of evaluation/benchmarking without the express written consent of Sun.
    More data is always good.

    rick jones
     
    Rick Jones, Jul 17, 2006
    #14
  15. Frank Cusack

    Frank Cusack Guest

    Well, not if you're trying to make a case for war. ;-)
     
    Frank Cusack, Jul 18, 2006
    #15
  16. I know this is the case with S10 FCS, is it the same with S10 6/06?

    If so, how does one legally blog their evals for JS and company's
    Try-n-Buy program? Using a non-Sun OpenSolaris distribution?

    John
     
    John D Groenveld, Jul 19, 2006
    #16
  17. Frank Cusack

    Rick Jones Guest

    It certainly looked that way. Studio 11 also.
    I am not a laywer (the acryonym seemed too ripe for
    mis-interpretiation). Indeed the JS blog entry was interesting. I'm
    still trying to learn all the ramifications but for the time being
    would have to assume that it was limited to those who were using
    try-n-buy on the T[12]000.

    rick jones
     
    Rick Jones, Jul 19, 2006
    #17
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